The Down Grade

Do you testify with Christ? John 7:7

2009-03-24T08:07:00.006-05:00

Do you testify with Christ? John 7:7

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.

In my experiences as a Pastor and as an evangelist, I have run into many people who have criticized me for my message. In love, I try to tell the truth about people and where they stand before a loving and merciful and holy and just God. My question for myself and for you, dear reader, is do you (I) testify with Christ?

In John 6, which forms the backdrop for this verse, we see that Jesus reproves the understanding of the people. Many people who saw the miracle of the loaves and the fishes believed Jesus was the prophet that Moses predicted. Others saw him as a prophet-king who would remove the foot of the Romans off the neck of the Jews, returning Israel to a sovereign nation. Jesus was both, but he was also the great High priest, the anointed Messiah of God. He was a prophet in that He spoke with the authority of God Himself. He was king, though not of this world, indeed of a kingdom that was now and not yet. He would reign over the Kingdom of God for ever and ever! And, He was the great high priest who would give his life as a sacrifice for the people. As he showed those who were following Him who He truly was, as the bread of life of whom we must eat and drink (believe and trust alone), many could not take this teaching and they left him. Only the twelve and a few others remained.

In John 7, we see Jesus, some six months later still in Galilee. His brothers are still not convinced as to who He is in truth. They want him to go down to Jerusalem (where the Jews are trying to have Jesus killed) and proclaim Himself king. This is where Jesus reproves them (and those who will hear Him today). Jesus explains to his brothers that they would have no problem being very comfortable in Jerusalem, for they were of the world, and the world loved them. Jesus on the other hand was not very popular, because He preached the truth, and proclaimed that the world’s works were evil.

Today, this is a major problem. People do not want to serve that type of God, read that type of book (the Bible), or render righteous judgment as the Bible commands (see John 7:24). In fact, many who share the office of pastor desire that they would have the community’s and the world’s approval rather than preach the whole truth as found in the Bible. Look at James 4:4

You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Indeed, Jesus proclaimed the truth, and condemned those who would seek friendship with the world

Luke 6:26 “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets”

My friends, what kind of person would encourage you to blindly and ignorantly step off of a cliff, without warning you of the results of a ten thousand foot fall? Would that be a friend? Certainly not. What if that person made you feel comfortable, feeding you, giving you drink, even giving you shelter and good advice for a better life as you marched toward that proverbial cliff? Is that a better friend? No it is not. Yet many of us are of the belief that it is the job of a Christian to make people feel good about themselves, and even make the way easier for them in this life rather than warning of the fall that is to come. They desire the friendship of the world. And they get it, they are well spoken of by those in this world as ones who do good deeds and speak refreshing words. They have the approval of man, and not of God.

What we, as Christians, are called to do is to warn people of the fact that they will die, and after this they will be judged:

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

And we will be judged, for our good works as well as our bad deeds. Indeed, The Bible calls our best deeds filthy rags, and declares that there is NO ONE righteous (Romans 3:9) and that all have sinned (Romans 3:23) and that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). There are those who are in our lives that love us enough to warn us of the walk towards the cliff (sin), and the fall (death) In fact, God has given us a conscience that has already warned us all multiple times, but many of us have short-circuited it by our very denial of the truth that we can see so clearly.
As Christians, we must know the truth of the Word of God and, without apology, study His Word and apply it first to ourselves and then proclaim it to the world. We are the voice warning people that if they go into eternity without having their sins forgiven (through repentance and faith in Christ alone- John 14:6) they will face God who is holy and just, who will not let sin into His presence, and who takes sin so seriously and loves us so much (Romans 5:8) that He sent Christ, imputing our sin to Him, pouring out his wrath that we deserved on Him, so that those who will repent and put their faith in Him alone will be saved.

While in Florida, we searched for a reason that so many young people claimed to be Christians as they were drinking alcohol and planning for pre-marital sexual activity (fornication) and feeding the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh. We also wondered why, among so many of those who came down to share a gospel, had no real training or understanding what a Christian was. This is when we studied Jeremiah 23:

Jeremiah 23:9-15 concerning the prophets:

My heart is broken within me; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, like a man overcome by wine, because of the Lord and because of his holy words. 10 For the land is full of adulterers; because of the curse l the land mourns, and the pastures of the wilderness are dried up. Their course is evil, and their might is not right. 11 “Both prophet and priest are ungodly; even in my house I have found their evil, declares the Lord. 12 Therefore their way shall be to them like slippery paths in the darkness, into which they shall be driven and fall, for I will bring disaster upon them in the year of their punishment, declares the Lord. 13 In the prophets of Samaria I saw an unsavory thing: they prophesied by Baal and led my people Israel astray. 14 But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers,so that no one turns from his evil; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.” 15 Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets: “Behold, I will feed them with bitter food and give them poisoned water to drink, for from the prophets of Jerusalem ungodliness has gone out into all the land.”

As pastors, indeed as Christians, we should approach the Lord and His Word in this manner that we see in verse 9. When is the last time that you read the scripture and it broke your heart? The last time it knocked you silly, as though you were drunk? That it made you tremble and shake before God? As pastors, indeed as Christians, God's Word is a powerful thing, and is to be humbly approached by us as we allow it to change us. As it changes us, we can see very clearly the difference between those who follow Christ and those who do not. Jeremiah was speaking to Jews at the time, but we can easily cross the bridge into today and see that the land is full of spiritual adulterers, led by adulterous pastors and priests who preach a false gospel, who do not tremble before a holy God and His Word.

The prophet, one who declares God's Word, indeed the priest, who leads us into religious acts of worship, are declared ungodly in this passage. Even in the houses of worship there is evil! We saw the fruit of this on the beach. Many of these young people claim to be church goers, some even claim that their parents and their pastors or priests approve of their letting off a little steam. We had one young woman claim that her youth Pastor encouraged her to go, before she said a blasphemy and dropped an f-bomb. My friends, I have no problem hermeneutically applying this passage to the modern-day church. Even in the house- the house of worship, we see this evil. There are many evidences that in this sex crazed society of churches with 30 day sex challenges, advertised with pornographic and suggestive photos. We see it in those in the pulpit who use crass and worldly language. We see it in the removal of the Bible as the final authority. We see it in the syncretism between the world and the church, indeed in the ecumenism of 'all roads lead to heaven'. And we see it in the man-centered worship that many churches turn to as numbers and donations dwindle. I could go on; but I do not have the room. Suffice it to say that many pastors have cast aside the scripture as authoritative in their own lives long ago, and the visible local church is paying the price.

The worst thing about the priests and the prophets in this passage is that in their own lives they commit spiritual adultery, and then they lead others astray, indeed they 'strengthen their hands'. Not only do they lead their parish astray, but they actually encourage evil acts in the sight of the Lord. What is spiritual adultery? Well, it takes many forms. It begins with a low view of God, or a low view of scripture. If we as pastors and priests do not fear God, or look at His Word as authoritative, our people will catch that disease. If we do not tremble before God and His Word, neither will those in our churches. If we do not preach the truth, the people will not hear the truth. And it all boils down to the fact that many preachers and priests are more afraid of man than they are of God. They fear that if they preach the word of God as it is that people will leave. They are right; for Jesus Himself lost most of his disciples when He preached the hard truth (See John 6)

The fruit of this is the young christians we observed in Florida, indeed, that was just a very blatant slap in the face, for I have experienced the same thing in my small town. The self-professed christians who were drinking stated 'god loves everybody, and he will forgive everybody'. In other words, they have learned from someone that if you dive into sin, drinking it in like water, chase after the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes, that this loving god up in the sky will wink his eye at your sin and just forgive you. It is not just these young people that believe this, it is a pervasive teaching in our country today. Indeed, many of the other campus ministries represented in Florida while we were there preached the very message that god loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life, and if you will just pray this prayer, he will forgive you!

That is a perversion what the Bible says.

Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

The Greek word is Metanoeo, and it means to change one's mind, to change one's mind for better, and to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins. In other words, it involves confession, which is agreeing with God and what His Word teaches about us and our sin. It involves a turning away from that sin, utterly forsaking it, having a determination never to return. However, as I have witnessed, this is not the case with many who sincerely ask God for forgiveness. For one, they do not agree that they, by nature, are sinful. They do not agree that their actions are sin, and offensive to a holy God, and they have no intent to leave behind their sin. Their mind remains unconvinced that what they do is wrong and that God will just look past their human frailty. This is due to a false understanding of who God is, indeed, it is a lack of true sorrow for sin that results in repentance. Many who confess or ask forgiveness still love their sin more than they love God. They fear the consequences more than they fear God.

On our recent trip to Florida, one young man upon hearing our message was visibly shaken. He had heard that no drunkard would enter heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) He came to speak with one of our team, but wound up counseling with one of these other campus ministries and was led in a sinner’s prayer. It was explained to him that God loved him, and that he could be forgiven if he would only ask. So, he was led in a prayer where he asked forgiveness of God and 'accepted' Christ. Assured of heaven and that he was a Christian, he ran to his cooler to drink another beer. God will be the judge if he was sincere, but the fruit was simply not there. How dare we give assurance that one is a Christian because they parrot a prayer! How dare we gloss over the grace of repentance or the work of the Spirit in one’s life!

None of this is to say that we fully understand what it means to be born again when it happens. Salvation is a work of God that is both immediate, progressive, and has a future result. The Greek word for salvation is soterios, and it is broken down in three tenses. There is the past tense, which is “I have been saved” and is described by two words: Justification (a forensic term meaning ‘being made right’) and redemption. These mean that at the moment of belief and repentance towards God, we have been saved, purchased from death, made right in the sight of God. This is in response to the hearing of the Gospel we repent of sin and turn towards God by faith, placing our trust for salvation in Christ alone. It is at this point that we are a new creature in Christ. Following that is the statement "I am being saved" a process called sanctification. In this, we are being made more like Christ as, by the power of the Holy Spirit, we are becoming more and more holy, or set apart to God from the world. Lastly, we will be saved. The word there is glorified, and, if we are truly born again, we will be kept by the power of Christ through the Holy Spirit until that day.

Salvation comes by a move of God on a person through hearing the Gospel and the person responding by obeying the Gospel through faith. It is not of ourselves. It is a gift of God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

We are not saved by praying a prayer, though prayer is involved. We are not saved by accepting Jesus, we are saved by grace through faith which is not of ourselves. We cannot produce salvation, it is given us by God. It is a work of God through the preaching of the Gospel after being drawn by God. It is nothing that we want, or even desire, for it involves a mortification of the flesh, that is, dying to the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

This is not the Gospel preached by the modern church. The modern church goes for the lust of the flesh and the pride of life by seeking to please men and help men and women improve their lives by giving them moral platitudes and by addressing felt needs. The fruit of this belief is a church that comes from a culturally compromised position rather than standing firm in the scripture, allowing the scripture and the application of it to change culture. The fruit is also of a generation of believers that follow a false gospel that negates the importance of scripture and orthodoxy as well as a relationship with Christ that comes on His terms rather than ours.

Was Chicken Little Right?

2009-03-10T09:39:00.003-05:00

What is the reality of the condition of the American Church today?

C?RN.info writers claim that everything is okay, except for the Synagogue of Satan represented by Slice of Laodicea, Christian Research Network, A Little Leaven and finally, Apprising Ministries Even more recently, a not so veiled attack was made towards these ministries by Neil of C?RN.info stating that many of these ODM's (as they are so called) claim that the sky is falling in regards to the American Church.

My friends, the sky is not falling, it has fallen. We are just too blind to see it, unfortunately. American Christianity is broken. How so? We are more like Wrestlemania than the 1st Century church. We serve the lust of the flesh rather than the God of the Bible. American Christianity is a fake, a farce, a far cry from the Church which was established 2000 years ago. And despite what commenters at C?RN.info have stated of late, it is not more of the same, or a repeat of history. Lets look at the original Church, and its growth 'strategies'

42 And a they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

This is how the church grew: Real Christians met together, prayed together, broke bread together, shared their material goods together, and fellowshipped under the teaching of the Apostles. Thats it! No motorcycles, Pastors talking about sex, watering down of the truth of sin and the ugliness of the cross, no people promoting themselves and their healing ministries. There was no loans for multi-million dollar structures that could be everything that the community wanted: like the best gym, dance hall,coffee shop, etc. No teachings that were very poetic and moralistic but devoid of Biblical truth. Nope; it was home to home, person to person, sharing the good news of Jesus Christ and one anothers' lives. There was no need for extravagant sets, no need for pornographic mailers sent to people's homes, no need for YouTube, no need for books outside of the Old Testament and the letters of the apostles. Nope- God added to their number daily those who were being saved with no human intervention.

Today in America, we are like the church described at Sardis in the book of Revelation 3:

3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.
“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. 4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Jesus knows our works, and He can see very clearly that the christianity in America (when I say this, I am not referring to the Church, which is Jesus' blood-purchased, forgiven, born-again followers) seems to be alive, but it is in fact dead. Why is it dead? we have fallen asleep. A recent survey of local pastors and churches in America found that 94% of churches failed to specifically present the Gospel in the calendar year 2008. This means simply that either an incomplete gospel message was preached, focusing only on the love of God without describing the need of man to be saved- our wretched, sinful, and lost position before Him (Romans 3:9-19), or no mention of salvation in Christ alone whatsoever. A recent search on the topics bar at SermonCentral.com for the topic 'the gospel' produced 0 results. The power of God unto salvation is the Gospel (Romans 1:16-17) Is it any wonder that people are leaving the church in droves? Where there is no life, there is no attraction. A dead person is still dead, no matter how good the undertaker makes him look.

The American ‘church’ has a reputation of being alive, but it is in fact dead. I suppose that I should be grateful, because this is an indication of Jesus returning. He warned us that there would be a great apostasy before his return. With Phyllis Tickle and Tony Jones calling for a departure from sola scriptura, Brian McLaren calling the death of Christ for our sins 'false advertising for God', Rob Bell proclaiming universalism in his most recent book by saying that God has painted blood over the doorposts of the universe, Rick Warren saying that we ought to test God by giving him a 60 day 'test drive'- before praying for a president who has now proven himself (again) to be an enemy of the unborn by signing abortion and stem cell research legislation- the stories keep coming and they are getting worse. And the reality is that ‘christians’ who go to church every Sunday are asleep, because those of us who are supposed to be shepherding them have fallen asleep at the pulpit. We have ceased to be under shepherds, and have become sheep ourselves, looking for the grass that is greener in our eyes while wandering far afield of where we are supposed to be.

The call from Jesus? WAKE UP and strengthen what remains. In Hebrews 5:11-14, we see a warning

11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

The American ‘church’ has become very dull of hearing, perhaps because of all the white noise that is out there influencing us. With all of the Christian radio, television, freedom of religion, multiplicity of Bibles, Bible studies, Christian colleges, etc. we are flooded with information, but in many cases, we are devoid of the Spirit. We should be teachers, if by the Spirit of God in us we would simply open the Bible and do what it says. As it is, many of us need someone to teach us again the very oracles (words) of God. Those who have not gone on from ‘elementary’ teachings, they are in fact unskilled, or imperfect in the Word. We see here the role of those who are mature, who have gone on from these elementary teachings to study and actual practice of the Word of God. How do we get this discernment? It is not from a constant study of the most hip theologians. It is from study of the Word of God under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And it is more than study, it is the practice of what we read in our everyday lives, so that we can discern good from evil. We need to wake up. We need more mature Pastors to exposit the Word of God clearly for us in our churches. Most importantly, the Gospel needs to be preached in its entirety, that Jesus Christ was crushed for our iniquities- for we are a wretched people, devoid of any good whatsoever, and despite this Christ died for us (Romans 3:9-19, 5:1-8) The gospel is what we need to strengthen what remains, and to drag us back from the deep chasm of apostasy we are approaching.

The call from Jesus to the American Christian is to REPENT! That is, we need to change our very orientation- our mind, our will, our whole being away from ourselves and our flesh towards God. We need to agree with what God says- about everything (we can find it in His Word) and strive to live holy lives. This takes a work of God, and we can only have this and desire this if God has drawn us. The bottom line is that we must be born again! We must be born of God. I urge all of us to consider our lives in the bright light of God’s law. We need to examine ourselves, and we need to have a godly sorrow that leads to repentance. Do not come to judgment day with a false hope, saying to Jesus ‘Lord, Lord’, only to have His reply I never knew you. Take the medicine of the Church of Sardis- Repent. The other option? Jesus will come against us when we least expect it. And we do not want to meet Jesus in this way, as our judge instead of the One who justifies.

The sky is falling- but we can be protected in Christ alone. Come back to Him!

The wonderful grace of repentance Psalm 130 The glory of God in Repentance: Jeff Noblitt

2009-02-25T08:29:00.002-06:00

Martin Luther called this the “Pauline Psalm” for it demonstrates very clearly repentance and faith in God, our Savior. The background to the Psalm demonstrates the dire straights that the Psalmist was in; we have Assyria on the march, conquering lands all around. This brought about fear in the land, and a surface revival, men and women bargaining with God to save them. Manassah, an evil king, ruled. It was a time of serious crisis for Israel, for they were under attack, and God seemed so far away.

It is in this condition, Noblitt teaches, that God is most close, for it is this condition that we are weak, humbled, and desperate. If we bring it to today, it is the condition that we are in when we are living in sin, falling fast. But the life of sin loses its satisfaction, we begin to find no reward in rebellion. Indeed, the consequences of sin begin to weigh on us as God crushes us under the weight of his judgement. We have two choices; to continue deeper into the pit or to climb out by the help and grace of God.

I Turning to God in despair and confession: 130:1-3
“Out of the depths I cry to you oh Lord” The depths can be described as a pit, a deep dark well into which one has fallen. You scratch and claw and struggle to climb out, Eventually, you grow tired, and weary, and realize that in your own strength you can never get out. It is then you begin to simply look up and cry out. This is where God will meet us if this is the point we call out to Him by faith.

Sometimes, God allows us into the depths to teach us or to mold us into the image of His Son. Look at Joseph- sold into slavery by his brothers after being thrown into a pit. Thrown into prison for refusing to dishonor God by dishonoring his masters wife. Looking to God by faith, he was exalted to a high place of honor in Pharaoh’s kingdom. Daniel, for refusing to stop praying to God was thrown low into the Lion’s den, and called out to God and God saved him. Shadrach Meshach, and Abednego refused to bow down and were thrown into the lion;s den. All these stories have one thing in common; these were men who were not being directly punished for something that they did against God (though none were righteous). God disciplines those he loves, he brings difficulty into our lives to try us and test us and to make us more into the image of His Son Jesus.

God does not hear us just because we cry, nor does he hear us when we are just in the depths. God hears us when we are in the depths of our sin and we turn to Him for mercy. The psalmist is saying Lord, hear my voice! His call is desperate and frequent and pleading as He cries out to God for help. The psalmist is going after God hard; but God will respond when we turn to him out of this place of brokenness. The fact is, and the psalmist realizes, that if God counted his sin against him, he would be forever lost. We forget how merciful God is, for He has every right to kill us for the very first act of disobedience. The psalmist encourages us to remember that God is full of mercy, because we are but lost sinners deserving of death and we have not gotten what we deserve. Sin is a direct offense against a holy God (Romans 2:23, 1 Samuel 2:30, Isaiah 2:17, Ez 6:9, Hebrews 6:6) Our sins are much more horrible, for, unlike the demons, we realize what we are doing is wronging God, and offending Christ. But God can turn us from loving sin to loving Him. When we turn to him, even when we have deserved his anger, He demonstrates His grace and His mercy in our lives. This brings us to our next point:

II Trusting in God for forgiveness and hope (130:4-5)
Indeed, the beauty of redemption and of grace is the one most offended by sin is the one who is the most forgiving of it. Our God is a great loving, merciful, and forgiving God! Glory to God! With the greatness of our sinfulness, we are rightly called God’s enemies (Romans 5) indeed, we are anti-God. Everything we are in our nature fights against God. We, as God’s enemies, should be rightly crushed under His wrath. Instead, in our condition, He sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty and take the wrath for our sin. Glory be to God!! As a result, we know that in withholding his wrath and showing us grace and mercy, we should have a fear of God, a reverential affection for Him. I wait for the Lord-in God’s Word I hope. I am looking for nothing outside of God. I am waiting in patience for God (vs. 5)
5 I wait for the Lord, my soul waits, and in his word I hope;

The Psalmist waits- in waits in patience for God, and according to His revealed Word, he puts his hope and his trust in the Lord. The psalmist, and we, should put our trust in the Lord because His word is true. Our hope will never be rewarded with disappointment as long as we hope in the Lord in alignment with His Word and His will. When we repent, change our mind due to circumstances and cry out to God for mercy, his Word can be trusted, and therefore we have a hope that will not disappoint.

Treasuring God as the Highest good (vs 6)
my soul waits for the Lord more than watchmen for the morning, more than watchmen for the morning.
God should be our treasure as well as our trust. Our soul should wait for the Lord, more than the watchmen for the morning. In the OT, a levitical priest would have the privilege off offering the morning sacrifice once per year. Knowing that this was a day of great opportunity for him, he would spend the entire previous evening preparing for the morning sacrifice, consecrating himself and his tools. He wanted to make sure he was ready morally and ceremonially. Oh, brethren, we should seek God like that, as our greatest treasure. We should seek to worship him in spirit and in truth. And we should desire that there be no sin in our lives that would create a barrier. We must repent and forsake our sin so that we can commune with a holy God, and make him our treasure.

Telling others that they must turn to, trust, and treasure our God (vs 7-8)

7 O Israel, hope in the Lord! For with the Lord there is steadfast love, and with him is plentiful redemption. 8 And he will redeem Israel from all his iniquities
Let the redeemed of the Lord say so! True theology makes us go after souls, as we testify to the Lord’s goodness in saving us. Israel hope in the Lord! This is a call to the nation to find repentance and salvation, one we should imitate. When we respond to God’s restoration, it is only natural that in our joy we should testify, for in this testimony, in evangelism, God gets all the glory. And indeed, when people respond in repentance and faith, God gets all the glory. We need to place our hope in the Lord, for in Him, and Him alone, is steadfast love and plentiful redemption. In our iniquity, we are warped, perverse, and we are lost. But God will redeem us from all of this, even the future potential of it. We are forgiven, redeemed of all of our sin past present and future when we come to Christ. The good news is that the slate is wiped clean, and even when we fall, we have an advocate in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Peter 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

Salvation, wrought by grace through repentance and faith, is so marvelous and incredible that the angels who witnessed the first creation of the heavens and the earth; indeed, who witnessed the very incarnation of Jesus Christ, God’s one and only Son into human form, stretch and strain to get a glance into God’s second creation; the creation of a new creature in Christ. We are dead in trespasses and sins, anti- Christ, anti-God; sworn enemies. But he changes us, and it is such a miracle that its glory and the glory it brings to God are even greater than the other things the angels have witnessed. To the praise of the glory of His grace. (Ephesians1)

The Wonderful Grace of Repentance: Brokenness is appropriate response to sin Voddie Baucham

2009-02-21T14:09:00.001-06:00

In our culture today, we so often want to fix everything, especially when it comes to our personal mental health. You cannot watch television on your typical sitcom or sports programs without advertisements for pills that can cure your libido or your mental state. This is where Voddie Baucham launched. We are a generation of Christians who do not understand or desire the launching place of true repentance, the soil from which it grows, or, as Voddie described it, the off ramp that allows us to get off the road we are on to turn around to get to the narrow road that leads to salvation. Brokenness is the place where we can stop and observe what will happen if we stay on the road we are on. Brokeness is where God allows us to be crushed under the weight of our own sin so that we can be healed by Him. The problem in our culture is that we see discomfort of any kind as problematic. It is as though an warning light is on in our car, and we choose to break the light because it bothers us.

Voddie sees this entering into the church culture as well; he observed from Rob Bell’s The gods are not angry tour that the guilt and brokenness we feel over sin is part of the old system. There is no brokenness in grace, Bell teaches. In the Shack, Mac is told that god submits to us, just like they all submit to one another. There is no need for brokenness in that system. You tell God who you want Him to be and what you want him to do. In the modern church, there is an aversion to the true doctrines of grace, and the doctrine of God, which includes his sovereignty, His holiness, and our brokenness before Him.

The text for Voddies message, which was very powerful and life changing for me personally, was Psalm 51. (My devotions were on that Psalm today; and two preachers preached on it. Who says God is not sovereign and in control?) Psalm 51 teaches us many things, but the main thing is that Brokenness is the appropriate response to sin for several reasons:
Sin stains and scars our souls 51:1-2

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!

blot out- same hebrew word used at the flood. David needs to be cleansed completely like God wiped out the earth with a flood.
wash me thoroughly- like a woman cleaning on a washboard cleanse- ceremonial cleansing, making ready for ceremonial or religious use.

Brokeness gives us the ability to recognize how damaging and rotten sin is. We really don’t understand the scar tissue it will leave when we are in the midst of it. We will suffer for it, be broken because of it. But it leads us to repentance. Who the Father loves He disciplines!
Romans 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? A true godly convert has great sadness and grieving over his sin! But this grieving leads to Christ- Thanks be to God!

Sin creates memories that remain with us 51:3

For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
It is good to remember, for a number of reasons that Voddie gave. For one, if I could forget my sin, how could I testify to God’s goodness in removing it? If I could not remember my sin, how could I remember the negative consequences? And, how could I rejoice in God’s goodness in giving me victory, and how could I celebrate my growth? I mean, it really reminds of God’s grace and mercy and goodness towards me. I am not where I ought to be, but I am surely not where I used to be. The memories of sin give us a needed brokeness not to repeat, and the victory gives us a greater love for God and the cost of our salvation.
Because our sin is an affront to a holy God 51:4-6
Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.
If we have a wrong view of who God is, like the lovey dovey all forgiving Jesus with perfect hair carrying a lamb, this will not matter to you. In other words, if we serve a sissified Jesus, like the one presented in the Shack, the one presented in much of the modern emergent/emerging conversation books, then this will not impact you. Your brokeness is an appropriate response if you serve the one true God. Listen to how John describes Him in the book of Revelation 19:

11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Many of us have a false view of God. Think about this: Why would God pour out his wrath for the sins of the world on Jesus Christ, and just let us slide? He won’t, and we must not mistake his longsuffering and kindness for a lack of action. If you have not the Son, you have not life. You are already condemned. How dare we take his mercy and grace lightly, by taking sin lightly! Our brokenness over sin shows we do not. But this must be granted us by God.
Sin is a hinderance to the worship of God 51:7-12

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8 Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones that you have broken rejoice. 9 Hide your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.

Apart from brokeness, you are not capable of genuine worship. God will not endure iniquity and worship together. To much of modern worship is man centered, man initiated, and man created and it is worthless before God. So many times we desire to please man rather than God with our worship.

Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
11 “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.
12 “When you come to appear before me, who has required of you this trampling of my courts? 13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, 17 learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson,they shall become like wool.19 If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; 20 but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be eaten by the sword; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

God insulted the people of Israel here by calling them the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, for they did the outward things but their hearts were far from God. He would not receive their worship until they came to Him in a right manner, indeed until he cleansed them for their sin. Without brokeness that leads to repentance, all we have is the appeasement of the tyrannical old man. But the whole of the teaching is this, and David realized this, as we observe all the action words of Psalm 51, directed towards God: Only God can provide the brokeness that leads to repentance. Everything we need can only be found in God.

The Wonderful Grace of Repentance: Grace Wrought RepentanceJeff Noblit

2009-02-20T09:08:00.003-06:00

Another fine time of praise and worship this morning was followed by a message by Pastor Jeff Noblit called Grace wrought repentance. A couple things before: In my one year Bible reading today, Psalm 51 was the Psalm. God sure was trying to speak to me today; for this Psalm is all about true repentance, indeed grace wrought repentance.

The background Pastor Jeff provided was great, and I have heard it before, but I think for this blog it does us well to repeat these concepts as a basis. The law, before Christ, only could bring death. Under gaining redemption by the works of the law; that is doing good works, we all sin and we all die, because living by the law requires perfect perpetual obedience.(James 2:10, Galatians 3:10) In other words, with the law there is no grace. Jesus Christ brought grace, demonstrated Grace. Repentance and faith were brought by the Gospel. Indeed grace is wrought by repentance. We cannot repent; indeed, we do not want to. God grants repentance (Acts 5:31, 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25) True repentance is a gift from God. It is not a natural trait, it is not a learned response, it is not rubbed off on us, and the only source is God. The greek word for repentance is actually two words that mean "to think" and "after" In other words, you used to think one way, now you think differently. There are two things needed for repentance, the Word and the Spirit. (Acts 2:37, 10:44, 8:29, 16:14, Zech. 12:10) The preaching of the word is like organ pipes; and God the Holy Spirit provides the wind- or else no 'music'- no repentance.

Pastor Jeff went on to explain two different types of repentance, and friends I want to tell you this hit me right between the eyes. The first is worked by the flesh; Flesh wrought repentance. It is a counterfeit of the real thing. It looks like this: We may first be troubled over sin, and its natural consequences. This is not real repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10) nor is the pragmatic commitment against sin where we are motivated by the pain of sin. In other words, we may repent when the flight is bumpy, but we forget about it when it is smooth. When you are in the middle of the consequences and pain of sin, it is easy to repent. It is when everything is going smoothly that we forget. Lastly, a fleshly repentance can look like giving up sins like, for example, smoking or drinking too much. Again, it has practical, temporary, and even positive outcomes, but it is not repentance unto God.

Then there is repentance wrought by grace. It is like the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15:16-17) where we finally come to our senses, seeing ourselves in truth. We must feel sorrow for doing wrong against God, recognizing our own sin and our own falling short. Indeed, the root of repentance is sorrow for sin. There is no repentance without sorrow. (Zech 12:10, Luke 7:38, Psalm 51:17) Sorrow, or a broken and contrite heart is a sacrifice God will always accept. The sorrow begins in the heart, the innermost part of man. This is not an outward show, indeed, the result of deep spiritual repentance is not often times tears, it is outward joy! (Mt6:16) Ahab repented, rending his garment but not his heart. Pharaoh was troubled about the frogs and the bloody water, but not over his sin. Sin begins in the heart (Mt 5:19) and it is there repentance must begin.

For repentance to be true, it must be God-ward. It is a sorrow over the offense and the one offended rather than the consequence. A real convert, a true repenter will lament his heart condition before God (Ps 51:3) Thats where grace brings us to; an awareness of our selves and our sin and the cure in turning from it. This sorrow is accompanied by faith; faith that God will save us, and even in our mourning over our sin, there is joy in God's salvation. There is great sorrow in grace wrought repentance (Luke 18:10-13) expressed differently by different people. When we recognize sin for what it is, and for who it offends, if we love God we are truly sorrowful over it. It is an abiding sorrow; for as sin abides in our flesh, as it is chronic, we must repent of it continually. (Romans 7:18-20) 1 John 1:9 tells us that our sin is forgiven, if we will simply confess, agree with God about our condition. Finally, this sorrow embraces Christ, finds Him all sufficient to save us wholly and completely (Matthew 11:28-29). God does not bring us to repentance to leave us writhing in despair. It is to bring us to Christ so that we can experience His grace.

Finally, Pastor Noblitt brought us through the fruits of repentance. What does this look like in practical application and life change? First, it manifests itself in confession. When one is deep in sorrow for sin, it comes out through tears and a verbal confession (Neh 9:2, Hos. 5:15, 1 John 1:9) In a very real way, we replace satan as the accuser, and we stand on God's side and we accuse ourselves of sin. Confession is the vomit of the soul, making the worst of sin. We must never stop confessing, for it removes the sickness from our soul. How precious is the cure if we see and acknowledge the seriousness of the disease. If it is a public sin, confession ought to be public. If private, the matter ought to be private. But confession must come nonetheless.

Another fruit is a hatred for sin. (EZ 36:31) You will loathe yourself for your iniquities. We are never more precious in God's eyes than when we see ourselves as lepers. (Psalm 119:104, Romans 7:23) Since sin is the opposite of God, we hate it. It is an incurable hatred for loving sin is worse than committing it (Psalm 101:7). Finally, we must turn from sin (Ez 14:6, Is 55:7, 2 Cor 3:3, Job 11:14) We must not be turning to heaven, or turning from hell, but turning towards God because of His love.

Repentance is the child of regeneration, and regeneration is the child of grace.

May God grant me (us) repentance.

Live Blogging the True Church Conference: The Wonderful Grace of Repentance

2009-02-20T06:03:00.004-06:00

With all the conferences in Christendom that go on, and my role as a dad, church planter, evangelist, substitute teacher, referee, and sports coordinator, I have to be very careful about the ones that I choose to go to. I cant waste my time going to one that headlines guys like Shane Claibourne, Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, and Bill Hybels (even though I desperately wanted to open air preach there while visiting my mother). No, I need a conference that will challenge me, engage me, and give me practical tools that I can use back home in my personal life, and in the life of our local church.

One of my elders planned, organized and financed the way for me to have the privilege to come down here with him (thanks John, I love you brother!) The name of the conference is "The Wonderful Grace of Repentance". I know. Strange. Last year, it was called Church Discipline; The missing Key to Church Growth. I know. Strange. But true! I didn't know what to expect, but I was (and am) Praying for great things to happen.

The opening service was magnificent. A large Choir filled the loft, and an orchestra filled the pit. Two white robed figures appeared in the midst of magnificent columns behind the choir. One was a boy, 17, and the other a Pastor. The boy gave a testimony of his false conversion, his previous 2 baptisms, and his recent repentance crying out to God to save him. This was, he testified, his third and final baptism. Praise God. Magnificent! The Choir, led with an orchestra, began to sing a hymn with a modern twist of lyrics. It was high, holy, and glorious. It was enrapturing; not because of a power jam, repeated lyrics, and an effort to elicit emotions from the congregation. No; it was singing that magnified God, thanked him for saving us though we do not deserve it, and magnifying his name. Yes, there were upraised hands in praise, but it was not manufactured or planned (except by God) or created by the repetition and instruction of a worship leader. It was as far as I could see and feel a genuine outpouring of love for the Savior, and it was beautiful.

Pastor Jeff Noblit then welcomes us. He prays an invocation, one that asks God to be present, to bless, guide, lead the conference, and something strange. I can't quite remember how he said it, but it was a call to God to reveal and purify our motives if there were any who were personality or attention seekers that they would repent and seek only after God, and that the personalities (the preachers) would only preach the glory of God, and point only to Him. Wow. Refreshing. He also pointed out that this is their annual missions conference, and he brought up a national pastor from Romania who gave a wonderful testimony of evangelism, church planting, and the move of God in his country. The whole of this conference, as Pastor Jeff explained, is to move the church, the True Church (the invisible body of Christ) into a passion for completing the great commission in building Christ's true Church.

After some more glorious singing, it is time for the main message. No, we are not talking a 20 minute bang bang entertain me message pulled out of a box. This was a full hour of rich, expositional preaching from the book of Romans 3:9-15 entitled: The Radical Depravity of Man

9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands;

no one seeks for God.

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one.”

13 “Their throat is an open grave;

they use their tongues to deceive.”

q “The venom of asps is under their lips.”

14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 in their paths are ruin and misery,

17 and the way of peace they have not known.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

The Preacher, Conrad Mbewe from Zambia, is an incredible and gifted preacher with a very unpopular subject in the visible church today. He contradicts guys like Tony Jones who say there is no original sin, that man is basically good. He preaches that this conclusion of the Apostle Paul after 2 chapters of the inditement of mankind is that all men- Jews and Greeks- are under sin- totally depraved- and this started in the garden. He wondered aloud why people are not and have not come to God in droves to receive the great offer of salvation from sin and death? Because they are under sin, blinded by it, and cannot see, cannot seek, and have no desire for God. From the beginning, when Adam and Eve sinned, their fundamental nature was changed, they were alive in Christ, and now they became dead in sin. Instead of desiring fellowship with God, now they ran and they hid. This spiritual death has been passed to us, robbing us of the ability to see and to sense the one True God. We are hostile to God (Romans 8:7-8) we cannot please God, submit to God, or even seek God. Our heart is desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9-10) Depravity has robbed us of the ability and desire to see the one true God; This is why so many churches today spend a lot of time making an idol that the people want and desire that is a false God; one that is all forgiving, all loving, and will give them anything they want and need like the spoiled children that they (we) are.

This is where Pastor Conrad gives us a call to the preaching of the Gospel. He says that the preaching of the Gospel infuses life into dead people. God acts upon souls by the preaching of the Gospel; they will not turn from sin and repent except for the grace of God. We are called to the blind, the weak, the lame, those who cannot see and have no desire for God. Amazing that this man from one of the poorest African nations comes to the pulpit not begging for clean water or food so that his people can come to know Christ. He shared that all over the world, all people are wicked, all people are under sin, and all people need the power of God through the Gospel. He called for the preaching of the Gospel, not some misguided social agenda. He desires that His people be saved from sin and death. Why are our priorities so different here?

Is this your church?

2009-02-06T08:20:00.002-06:00

HT The Sacred Sandwich

What is the problem with todays church??

2009-02-05T07:17:00.001-06:00

Please watch this very important video from the White Horse Inn which asks the question " What is the problem with today's church?"

Where is the social justice in this?

2009-01-19T10:09:00.002-06:00

170 million dollar inauguration?

With all the poor, all the homeless, all the thirsty, and all the hungry in Washington DC, our nation, and around the world? We are going to have a 170 million dollar inauguration?

I don't get it.

All the social justice emergent church types wanted Obama to be president. Who cares if he promises to sign the FOCA, allowing the murder of unprecedented numbers of babies, continuing a quarter century long genocide? After all, he is going to bring social justice! He is going to help the poor! He is going to stick it to the rich!

Yep, having spent more than Clinton and Bush II combined, it certainly demonstrates a concern for the poor. That could pay an annual wage of 18,000 per year to 14,000 unemployed Americans. It could supplement the incomes of three times as many of the working poor in our country.

Imagine all it could do to help the hungry of the world.

But Shane Claibourne, Tony Campolo, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt, Dan Kimball, and Brian McLaren, along with all the other social justice emergents are silent. They believe that the chance that he will redistribute wealth (stealing) from the rich to the poor (stealing) so that the cause of social justice in America will be done.

This is not to mention the HUGE amount of money spent in elections this year.

It is hypocrisy. And nothing has changed or will change until the Lord Jesus changes people.

Jesus came in a manger, humble, meek, and lowly. He brought the greatest amount of change ever without spending 170 million to proudly proclaim His coming. The fanciest he got? palm leaves and a ride on a colt.

Obama, the new 'messiah' comes with pride, spending the people's money to proclaim his greatness. Is this Christianity? If it is the kind of Christianity we proclaim to the world, no wonder they hate us. No wonder Christ's name is mocked because of us.

Where does 'America's Pastor' stand on homosexuality?

2008-12-28T09:21:00.002-06:00

Rick Warren flip-flops more than John Kerry working in a Waffle House.

Perhaps this is because his PR team thought he was in a little trouble following this video interview:

The fact of the matter is that Rick Warren was right in his definition here of marriage, that it should be between one man and one woman. This outraged the homosexual lobby in America, despite the fact that he said here that divorce is a far more dangerous to America then homosexual marriage. He states very clearly that he is against homosexual marriage, but is for civil rights. I think this is fair, I believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible clearly states that it is. But I cannot place my Christian morals on a non-believer in Christ. However, it is ridiculous for the homosexual lobby to steal marriage and the definition of marriage. To be fair, Rick Warren was right to warn against the potential for other groups, like a brother and sister, or a man and his dog to desire to be married and call it marriage. He was not saying that homosexuality is like beastiality or incest, he was stating the potential of a slippery slope.

Now Rick Warren's PR team is doing damage control, sending Rick into a West Hollywood bookstore that raises funds for AIDS patients, and trying to get the owner of the store there to be convinced of all the good Rick does for gays. It also seems that they have replaced a video presentation proving homosexuality is wrong from the Bible with:

On Tuesday, the church replaced a brief article on the Bible and homosexuality with an audio message on Saddlebackfamily.com to better explain the church's view that Scripture prohibits sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman, according to Larry Ross, a Warren spokesman.

Saddleback and Rick Warren are caving in on the issue because of the pressure that they are receiving from the homosexual lobby. I personally though Rick Warren was making progress, but in the news networks and on his own church website, he has been back peddling.
I would have far more admiration and respect for Warren if he would make a stand and stay there, not worrying about public opinion. But he cannot; for the whole concept of being seeker-sensitive is all about the opinions of those outside the church. He needs a PR team to send out test balloons, for in all of his years in ministry he has built a church based upon the felt needs of 'seekers'. Now, he sees that some of these 'seekers' are homosexuals, and he must go back and explain that he does not hate gay people, and that he is not against gay rights, he just does not want them to have the term 'marriage' applied.

Rick, be at least like Tony Jones. Make a stand, even if it is unbiblical, and stay there. If it is your desire to be loved by the masses, do not make a stand based on the scripture, because the masses hate that. And please, as you make the invocation at the inauguration, do not pray in Jesus' name, because that name is offensive.

Or, you can stand on the scripture, state without reservation that homosexuality is a perversion of God's plan, and that God's way is marriage between one man and one woman. You may lose the love of the world, but God will be pleased. You may lose some members of your church, but God will be happy. You may not get to pray at the inauguration, but that is a small price to pay for integrity and character.

Rick Warren did it right?

2008-12-25T10:24:00.003-06:00

Last night (Christmas Eve) I was in the twin cities with my extended family, but we wanted to be home for Christmas day, so we drove home late at night. It was a 2 1/2 hour drive, so by the time we got home at around 12:30, I was pretty amped up. So, I channel surfed to quiet down, and found the tail end of Rick Warren's "A Christmas at Saddleback" on Fox News Channel.

I watched with a critical ear, as usual, because Warren has so wrecked the Gospel in his multiple TV appearances, at Davos, and in the national cathedral. But I was pleasantly surprised last night when Rick Warren actually said the word 'repent' when describing how to receive the greatest Christmas gift ever. He said that we must admit that we need and want God, that we want to be saved from our sin, and that we repent and turn from our sin, and we receive the gift.

I do not agree that there are seekers as Warren describes, for the Bible states clearly that no man seeks after God, and that no one can come to God unless He draws them. God is the seeker. But, Warren's proclamation of repentance and faith for salvation deserves a hearty three cheers from his critics, of which I am the chief.

What Jesus are you praying to?

2008-12-13T19:23:00.004-06:00

In this rather humorous piece, we see a serious point. Problem here is that the emergent world and the modern evangelical institutional church are much like the Ricky Bobby table prayer. The problem? Manyl choose a Jesus that we like and a theology that we like. Like Rob Bell who says

Velvet Elvis “For a Christian, Jesus’ teachings aren’t to be followed because they are a nice way to live a moral life. They are to be followed because they are the possible insight into how the world really works. They teach us how things are. I don’t follow Jesus because I think Christianity is the best religion. I follow Jesus because he leads me into ultimate reality. He teaches me to live in tune with how reality is. When Jesus said, ‘No one comes to the Father except through me’, he was saying that his way, his words, his life is our connection to how things truly are at the deepest levels of existence. For Jesus then, the point of religion is to help us connect with ultimate reality, God.” - p. 83

Are Jesus' words a possible insight into how the world really works? Or are they the words that show us the way to eternal life? Does Jesus lead us into the ultimate reality, or has He paid the penalty for our sins to give us righteousness? When Jesus said that no one comes to the Father but by me, He was saying that He was the Way the Truth, and The Life. He is the only way, that is by His ultimate sacrifice, the only way to peace with God, the only way to Salvation. The point of Jesus' coming was NOT to connect with the ultimate reality, it was to reconcile us with God. Ultimately, the point of Jesus' coming was to bring Glory to God!

What Jesus is Rob Bell and his buddies talking about? What Jesus is going to reconcile and restore all people, regardless of their religious belief like Doug Pagitt believes in? What Jesus does not know the future, like the one Greg Boyd believes in? What Jesus was called the Word, and yet sola scriptura is coming to an end like the one Phyllis Tickle believes in? What Jesus does Tony Jones believe in, as he makes a mockery of being Born Again, and of the clear teaching of the Bible about the sin of homosexuality?

We better make sure that we are praying to the right Jesus; like the one presented in the Bible. The one presented in the Gospels. The one presented in John ch. 1 with the all the different names He is called by John to demonstrate his character and nature. I urge you to make sure that you believe Jesus in truth, as presented in His Holy Word. His Word is closely associated with His character. He is the Word, and we must believe in Him in truth. We do not want to come to the day of Judgement, thinking we know who Jesus is, and we believed all along in the wrong one.

The Great Emergence from Biblical Authority

2008-12-08T09:44:00.004-06:00

It is simply shocking, but there have been warning signs. What is it that emergent is emerging from, and where are they emerging to? At the great emergence conference, Phyllis Tickle-your-ears (as quoted by the blogger Jonathan Brink, claims that they want to emerge from denominations, organized churches, and central authority. The shocking claim: That the reformation transfered authority from a flesh and blood pope to one made of paper (the Bible).

I’ve heard Tickle-(your-ears) talk about the faulty logic of Luther’s choice for Sola Scriptura and the inevitable consequences of it but she mentioned something today that really caught everyone’s attention. She went extensively into the concept of division and how Sola Scriptura is naturally bent towards division, which is eventually a recipe for chaos and unending conflict. She mentioned the 26,000 Protestant denominations on record. The choice for Sola Scriptura had a positive consequence in that it did foster literacy in order for people to read Scripture on their own, but it also took away a central authority in the Pope which allowed everyone to have an opinion. Outcome: Instant division.

HT: Missio Dei/Jonathan Brink

Well, Mrs Tickle-your-ears is right; Sola Scriptura is bent towards division. Jesus Christ himself (red letter christians, pay attention) said that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. The author of Hebrews notes that scripture is a two edged sword, and the division it causes. The conflict is brought about when people trip over the rock which is Christ, and His Word, which is so closely associated with who He is. God literally breathed out (inspired) the Bible, and therefore, it has authority, and is useful:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (English Standard Version)16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work

When the light comes into our lives, we have a choice, we can cover our sin, deny the light, suppress the truth or we can confess our darkness, our sin and be forgiven:

1 John 1:5-9 5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and(I) the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We can choose to walk in the darkness, out from under the authority of scripture. By emerging out from under the authority of scripture, the light of scripture, we are walking in the darkness. To coin an old Doug Pagitt coloquialism: 'the way of Jesus' is only presented in the Bible; it is not our opinion of how Jesus would act, it is the truth of Jesus and who He is according to the scripture. Apart from scripture, we cannot know Jesus and what He wants us to do.

Further proof of the slide away from biblical authority came when Tony Jones last week announced his opinion that GLBTQ people can live as Christians, We see that Jon Brink also notes that this has to do with the departing from Sola Scriptura:

.....Tickle’s comment that there are forty-four specific events that underline the move away from Sola Scriptura. I would love to see what those 44 are but that would be like icing on the cake. The final subject in the turn away will be how we address homosexuality in the church. She reiterated that it’s not if Sola Scriptura ends but when.

Amen, again, this is so true. If scripture is not the final authority, and feelings or our modern intelligence becomes the source of reason and rule in religion and faith. We will go with what seems the most logical to us, and not what the Word of God teaches. This is presented oh so clearly by Paul in Romans 1:18-22: exegesis

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt, Rob Bell, and Phyllis Tickle-your-ears claim to be wise, but they have become fools, because they do not see the scripture alone as the final authority. It is as though God needs help to catch up to postmodern thought and sensibilities. The God of the universe saw this before time began, and knew that man would fall away. When you emerge from scriptural authority, you commit apostasy. Maybe next year (the the Lord tarries) they could call this conference that: The great apostasy. This great apostasy is coming; be watchful; for we see at the great emergence what Paul warned about in 1 Timothy 4:

1 Timothy 4:1 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared

Those who call God a liar are liars, by saying that scripture alone is not enough calls God a liar. It is really just that simple. If they do not trust His word, then they are not Christians.

And then Peter in 2 Peter 3:

I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires

Many of these scoffers can be found in emergent fellowships around the world. They scoff at God's law like the serpent did in Genesis 3 : Did God really say?

14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

We are called by God to be diligent in holiness. We are told to avoid those who twist scripture (or cast it aside) to their own destruction. We should not be carried away by their teaching, because we will lose our stability (found only in Christ. We are called to grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus; the only way to do that is by loving His Word, reading His Word, and obeying His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Also See Apprising.org, Phillis Tickle and the Emerging Church; Its not if Sola Scriptura ends, But When.

Burning down "The Shack"

2008-12-05T12:10:00.002-06:00

Many of the folks who attend the local church in which I serve have come to me in recent months asking about the book "The Shack". I must confess, I have not read it, as yet, because I do not really frankly have the time. I have done quite a lot of reading about the book, its author, and what it teaches as the truth. I have decided that I will not be spending my time reading it, rather, I will trust the reviews of trusted brothers and sisters in Christ. I recommend highly Dr. Michael Youssef, Tim Challies
, and Berit Kjos

For those who have little time to read, and are interested, Dr. Michael Youseff has put together thirteen heresies refuted by scripture that he found in The Shack. I post this her because I believe the most important thing that we must know and agree upon is the truth about Christ as we find in scripture, not the pictures of God that the world is more comfortable with.

1. God the Father was crucified with Jesus.

Because God's eyes are pure and cannot look upon sin, the Bible says that God would not look upon His own beloved Son as He hung on the Cross, carrying our sins (Habakkuk 1:13; Matthew 27:45).

2. God is limited by His love and cannot practice justice.

The Bible declares that God's love and His justice are two sides of the same coin — equally a part of the personality and the character of God (Isaiah 61:8; Hosea 2:19).

3. On the Cross, God forgave all of humanity, whether they repent or not. Some choose a relationship with Him, but He forgives them all regardless.

Jesus explained that only those who come to Him will be saved (John 14:6).

4. Hierarchical structures, whether they are in the Church or in the government, are evil.

Our God is a God of order (Job 25:2).

5. God will never judge people for their sins.

The Word of God repeatedly invites people to escape from the judgment of God by believing in Jesus Christ, His Son (Romans 2:16; 2 Timothy 4:1-3).

6. There is not a hierarchical structure in the Godhead, just a circle of unity.

The Bible says that Jesus submitted to the will of the Father. This doesn't mean that one Person is higher or better than the other; just unique. Jesus said, "I came to do the will of Him who sent me. I am here to obey my Father." Jesus also said, "I will send you the Holy Spirit" (John 4:34, 6:44, 14:26, 15:26).

7. God submits to human wishes and choices.

Far from God submitting to us, Jesus said, "Narrow is the way that leads to eternal life." We are to submit to Him in all things, for His glory and because of what He has accomplished for us (Matthew 7:13-15).

8. Justice will never take place because of love.

The Bible teaches that when God's love is rejected, and when the offer of salvation and forgiveness is rejected, justice must take place or God has sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross for nothing (Matthew 12:20; Romans 3:25-26).

9. There is no such a thing as eternal judgment or torment in hell.

Jesus' own description of hell is vivid ... it cannot be denied (Luke 12:5, 16:23).

10. Jesus is walking with all people in their different journeys to God, and it doesn't matter which way you get to Him.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one will come to the Father but by me" (John 14:6).

11. Jesus is constantly being transformed along with us.

Jesus, who dwells in the splendor of heaven, sits at the right hand of God, reigning and ruling the universe. The Bible says, "In Him there is no change, for He is yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 11:12, 13:8; James 1:17).

12. There is no need for faith or reconciliation with God because everyone will make it to heaven.

Jesus said, "Only those who believe in me will have eternal life" (John 3:15, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40).

13. The Bible is not true because it reduces God to paper.

The Bible is God-breathed. Sure, there were many men through 1,800 years who put pen to paper (so to speak), each from different professions and different backgrounds, but the Holy Spirit infused their work with God's words. These men were writing the same message from Genesis to Revelation. If you want to read more about the place of Christ in the Scripture, read "We Preach Christ" (2 Timothy 3:16).

HT Dr. Michael Yousaf

This Christmas, the Shack may have been on a list of books you might want to give to a loved one who is hurting or seeking God. A far better gift would be the Bible, which is the only text from which you can discover God's answer to the human condition, as well as the one true God. It is the only inspired Word, and it is the only source that can claim divine authorship. If you must read the shack, do so with the Bible nearby, Do not trust the words of the human author, who himself has denied scripture and turned from the truth.

Rick Warren on Hannity and Colmes: He almost got it!

2008-12-04T08:54:00.005-06:00

Last night, Rick Warren went on Hannity and Colmes to promote his book the book "The Purpose of Christmas". My first note: This guy is a marketing genius. He refuses to confront Rupert Murdoch (owner of Fox and calls Rick Warren his 'pastor') about his distribution of pornography etc, and Rupert gives Warren plenty of face time on Fox News and on Christmas specials. He is also a marketing genius because he uses purpose in all of his books, and has peace with God summed up in three pithy phrases, all found in his books. (I do not want to misquote, so I will not write them here)

I was actually tracking with Warren for a time while he and Hannity were talking. The conversation was all about how Thanksgiving and Christmas have both really lost their meaning in a consumer driven society. Warren appropriately mentioned that many families fail to give thanks to God even on Thanksgiving! I really agree with this. The focus has become (for many) family, football, and shopping on Black Friday. Christmas has become less about Jesus Christ, God incarnate, God's gift to mankind , and more about business and sales and family and vacation. (It is kind of hypocritical, therefore, in my view to promote your book that you are trying to sell about Christmas...perfect Christmas gift!)

Now, I am sure Richard Abanes, professional apologist for Rick Warren will disagree with where Rick and I really parted ways. Alan Colmes( a Jew) basically begged Rick Warren to proclaim the Gospel. He went at Rick at least three times, giving him the perfect opportunity to say that Jesus Christ is the only way. Rick kind of partially quoted John 14:6 and said that Jesus is the way; but then Alan Colmes came back at him and asked if that means that you must take Jesus Christ as your Lord to be saved, and Rick dodged that question, as well as the follow up, asking if Jews, Muslims, etc. will be in heaven if they do not believe in Christ. Alan Colmes was giving Pastor Rick Warren ample opportunity to proclaim that it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this comes judgement. A perfect opportunity to say that God sent Jesus into the world not to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through Him- but that whoever does not believe is condemned already. And he could have said that the wrath of God abides on those who will not take this gift. He could have proclaimed the good news. He didn't, except in code and pithy phrases from His book not the Word of God. The real bummer is when he told Alan Colmes to try Jesus for 90 days and if he didn't feel better or get his life improved, he could 'return Jesus' would get his money back. Everybody on the set thought that was really funny. God did not.

Many people who read this blog think I am too hard on the emergents and the wishy-washy seeker sensitive Pastors. This is the very reason. Rick wanted to be a 'bridge builder' (his words) and was more concerned about ratings and not being offensive than he was about preaching the truth. But he will not be asked back you may say. SO WHAT! If he proclaims the truth once with the millions of viewers out there, he will do more than many will do in a lifetime. As usual, and with his seeker sensitive aplomb, Rick Warren decided it was more important to sell books and not offend than it was to preach the Gospel. He thought it better to be a comedian, to make salvation into a sales pitch, to make Christmas all about me, and not the glory of God. For shame, Rick, For shame.

Open letter to a friend who has a gay loved one:

2008-11-23T09:42:00.002-06:00

My dear friend,

You have asked me to exegete Romans 1:18-32 for you to examine whether or not God through Paul is addressing homosexuality specifically or sin generally. Here is my take:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

We are correct in assuming that this is a passage against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. The wrath of God is revealed, specifically in the fact that men die ( the soul that sins, it shall die). People who are trapped in sin suppress the truth, because, as John explains in John 3, They love darkness rather than light. The result? Jesus came to save sinners, because we stand condemned or judged already for our sins.

19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
A universal truth, God has revealed himself to all mankind. He has done this through creation, as well as the law written on the heart of man. Where does ungodliness and unrighteousness come in? When we suppress the truth by our deeds.

20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

The goodness of God and the morality of God is revealed in creation. His attributes are revealed, specifically, his power (as creator) and his divine nature(merciful, loving, and yes, just) Being that the law and these attributes are written on the hearts of all men through what we call the conscience, when we sin, we do so with (con) knowledge (science), all men are without excuse when they suppress the truth and they choose to sin. Remember, John 3:17-20...men are condemned already.

21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

They knew God, through creation and conscience, yet they chose not to honor Him. As a result, they became futile (worthless) in their thinking. Their foolish hearts were darkened or hardened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
An example of this is the many religions formed over the centuries. Mankind has created gods in their own image. Philosophers have come and gone, proclaiming wisdom, yet in the end, they were proven foolish. One day, those who call homosexuality natural or something people are born with will have to face God on judgement day. They will understand they were very foolish, as will the thieves, liars, and adulterers who made a god in their own image believing that he made them that way and that they have an excuse for sinful actions. They will question the creator, as many do now, and He will say depart from me, you who practice lawlessness (MT 7:20-23)

23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Some religions (see evolution) are so foolish that they assign creation to created things, and worship those created things rather than worshipping God. Some modern and ancient religions would worship the sun, the moon, and even rocks.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

God gave them up- that is he gave up those who suppressed truth, denied their conscience, and sinned against God, and created gods of created things. He gave them up to lusts- all the things of the flesh, all the things that are manifested out of pride and selfishness. Specifically, God gave them over to impurity, which is manifested in sexual perversions, whether it be homosexuality, beastiality, incest, pornography, fornication, etc. etc. They dishonored their bodies among themselves...God made their bodies for a specific purpose, their sexual organs for a specific purpose. He made man with parts and women with parts. These parts were for specific function for the purpose of pleasure and procreation within a covenant relationship. He made woman for man and man for woman. Any 1st year biology student can understand this. But, because they are given over, their hearts are darkened, they have become fools, they believe that they can use specific parts for different functions. They have exchanged the truth about God- that he is the creator, that he has laws, and that he has attributes and character, for a lie. They believe that, for example, God created them that way. But God is not to blame for sin of any kind. We choose to sin. We have the nature to worship and please ourselves in our own lusts rather than pleasing and serving God.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Very clearly, this is about homosexuality. This is not the way God made man and made women. God calls homosexuality dishonorable, unnatural, shameless, and punishable by the wrath of God. Since they gave up on God, and pursued their own lusts, God gave them up, and allowed them to pursue their own lusts. I don't want to seem mean, Ronald, but statistically, homosexuals have a much higher suicide rate than heterosexuals. Modern man attributes that to persecution or not being loved or accepted. I believe it is because they know that the wrath of God abides on them, they are filled with shame, andthey are receiving the due penalty for their error in their misery.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

This debased mind includes belief that what they are doing is right and proper and smiled upon by God. It is not.

29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

This is the description of all the other ways that sin manifests itself in people. And certainly, we should judge ourselves. Indeed, Paul was writing to the Romans describing the world caught in sin in this first 3 chapters. He was placing all of us under the law, including the Jews (and modern day pharisees)in chapter two, who would say, well, I am not like that, so I am okay. Paul uses the ten commandments to show us that there is no one righteous, not even one.

My friend, I weep for you and for your son. I pray that instead of self protection in the form of justifying your son's sin, and believing in a false God who would change His standards and His Word for your son's benefit, I would warn your son that if he dies in his sins he will go to Hell! Part of true salvation is repentance, which includes agreeing with God about sin in your life (confession) and a 180 degree turn from that sin to God, placing your full trust in Him. If your son does this, God will forgive his sins, and give him a new heart and a new mind with new desires.

Love,

John

It has begun: Tony Jones and The great apostasy Updated

2008-11-21T19:41:00.004-06:00

Its the end of the world as we know it! Let us look at Matthew 24:

36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Now, I am not trying to predict when the Lord will return, but I think most Christians suspect that the end is coming very soon. One of the many predictors that Jesus gave (you red-letter Christians should be interested in this) was that it will be as in the days of Noah. In the days of Noah, the wickedness of mankind raised a stench that reached the very nostrils of God, prompting God to destroy the earth with a flood. One of the wicked things that man did, according to the historical records of the Babylonians in pre-flood times was homosexual marriage. There really is nothing new under the sun.

Now Tony Jones, resident emergent theologian of Solomon's Porch, former director of the now director-less emergent village, and emergent author, has 'come out' so to speak. This is after acknowledgement of the inclusion of lesbian pastors in the emergent movement by him, He has supposedly gone over a period of study according to his new same sex marriage blogologue as he calls it:

And yet, all the time I could feel myself drifting toward acceptance that gay persons are fully human persons and should be afforded all of the cultural and ecclesial benefits that I am. ("Aha!" my critics will laugh derisively, "I knew he and his ilk were on a continuous leftward slide!")

In any case, I now believe that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (at least as much as any of us can!) and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state.

Well, I suppose this blogalogue will be a test of whether I have good theological and philosophical reasons for supporting the rights of GLBTQ persons to marry, or whether I've simply caved to the mushy inclusivity of pluralized nothingness.

HT Belief Net

The scripture is quite clear in regards to homosexuality as a sin, as well as a number of other sins that will separate us from God. But, if you cannot have it your way, if your human reason is not supported by the Bible, then of course, you simply change the Bible. As cults such as the Jehovahs Witnesses and the Mormons have done before, the new age cult of Emergent has decided that now is the time to change God's Word to line up with their beliefs. The Voice (now used instead of the Word in John 1:1) has been released. We thought that the Message translation was bad...From Chris Roseborough:

The passage should read:

1Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality…

But, The Voice aka The New Emergent “Translation” reads:

1 Cor 6:9 Do you need reminding that the unjust have no share in the blessing of the Kingdom of God? Do not be misled. A lot of people stand to inherit nothing of God’s coming kingdom, including those whose lives are defined by sexual immorality, idolatry, adultery, sexual deviancy…

They change homosexuality to sexual deviancy. That phrase is always changing in our pluralistic society, until 1972 Homosexuality was listed as deviant sexual behavior in the DSM. Very soon, there will be no such thing as sexual deviancy. Believe me, these people who desire to make syncretize every faith as a way of making peace with God, who say that everyone is reconciled to God and just do not know it yet will put up with every type of behavior known to man rather than warn people with what the Word of God has to say about it.

The behavior of the radical homosexual is glorified and justified. They are aloud to assault, urinate upon, kick, and threaten with death Christians who simply wanted to pray in the Castro district. It is as though they went into Orissa state for a moment. They had to be escorted out by police in riot gear. This is after a majority of Californians have voted against same sex marriage. Churches have been raided, old ladies have been attacked, and countless other assaults have happened for those who stand up for the Bible. But we should expect to be persecuted for living for Jesus. And, the persecution will increase as the church of the world, including emergent, separates from the true church like the chaff from the wheat. They, like their other postmodern brothers and sisters desire to look, think, and act like the world and, in doing so, have aligned themselves with worldly thinking that is against God and the Bible, rather than those who name the name of Jesus.

As it was in the days of Noah, only those who have looked to God as their salvation will be saved from God's judgement. To do so, they needed to repent (Noah preached repentance for 120 years as he built the ark) Only 8 people did so before the flood, it was not a popular message to be sure. But it is the one we must preach to the emergent post-modern pied pipers who are trying to call what is evil good and what is good evil.

Rev. Peterson: Black Preachers are Worshiping the Wrong Messiah

2008-11-13T11:12:00.001-06:00

...There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies…2 Peter 2:1

Contact: Ermias Alemayehu, 213-804-1872, info@bondaction.org

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 13 /Christian Newswire/ -- With the November 4 election of Barack Obama, black preachers have been celebrating across the country. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Founder and President of BOND Action, Inc. is rebuking these black preachers for their part in electing the most left-wing presidential candidate in American history:

"Ninety-six percent of black voters supported Barack Obama and the majority of these voters were influenced by black preachers to put race ahead of their country and their faith," said Rev. Peterson. "How can ministers who are supposed to lead their flock to Jesus Christ instead lead them to a socialist like Obama? The truth is that most black ministers don't have a real relationship with God and they are leading their congregations to hell. These blind leaders helped elect their black 'Messiah'. This 'Messiah' happens to be the most left-wing member of the U.S. Senate," said Rev. Peterson.

Here's where president-elect Obama stands on key issues:

Believes in abortion on demand (virtually under any circumstance), and has told Planned Parenthood that sex-ed for kindergartners is 'the right thing to do' (as long as it's 'age appropriate');

Has promised to repeal the federal Defense of Marriage Act and would allow homosexual 'marriages' to be made legal in all 50 states;

Would appoint far left activist judges who'd pervert and misinterpret the U.S. Constitution;

Has pledged to dismantle 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' in the military. Supports open homosexuality, bisexuality, and transexuality in all military branches, barracks and shower facilities.
This is what influential black ministers said after the Obama election victory:

Bishop T.D. Jakes of The Potter's House church said that Sen. Barack Obama's campaign "encouraged, validated and gave inspiration to not only the people of the United States of America, but to the people of our world."

At Harlem's Abyssinian Baptist Church, Rev. Calvin Butts invited his congregation to stand up "and give God praise for the election." Several hundred churchgoers rose as one and cheered, "Yes we can! Yes we can!"

Grammy-winning gospel singer, Rev. Shirley Caesar-Williams said, "Too long we've been at the bottom of the totem pole, but he [Obama] has vindicated us, hallelujah."

Rev. John L. Lambert, Bethel AME Church in Indianapolis, "If ever there was an answer to 'who cometh to our help?' that was the answer...Look at what God has done."

At Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Rev. Otis Moss, III, said history would note that Trinity was the holy place where "God stirred a young man's soul and put him on the path to the presidency."

Rev. Peterson added: "For the past eighteen years I've said that most black preachers are not called by God, but instead are called by their mammas. If there was ever a time that this was the case, that time is now. In order for black Americans to turn around, they must drop their anger, and find the truth within themselves, not from corrupt, racist preachers or from a false black Messiah."

BOND Action, Inc., is a nonprofit, pending 501 (c) (4) new cultural action organization, which exists to educate, motivate and rally Americans to greater involvement in the moral, cultural and political issues that threaten our great country. Contributions to BOND Action, Inc. are not tax-deductible. For more information call (877) WE-ACT-77, visit www.bondaction.org or write to us at BOND Action Inc., PO Box 35586, Los Angeles, CA 90035-0586

There is something seriously wrong in America.

2008-11-12T12:49:00.007-06:00

World Net Daily reported on a recent terrorist attack on the church in which a group of homosexual protestors began to protest outside to draw out a group of security people from the church, and inside the church members of the same group unfurled a banner, flung condoms, spewed blasphemies such as 'Jesus was gay', and took over the pulpit to display lesbians kissing one another. This was following a prayer in which the Pastor was praying specifically for our new President-elect.

Two weeks ago, in an unrelated incident, Shawn Holes and a Pastor were arrested for tresspassing on PUBLIC property for the crime of OFFERING passers by tracts. There have been many lies sent out by the prosecuters in this case, saying that students were being blocked, harrassed, and had tracts forced upon them. Here is video evidence to he contrary. (Watch from 5:01, and note how the officer of Public Safety assaulted Shawn Holes and damaged his camera)

In a further unrelated incident a Pastor (me) was excercising his right to free speech on November 4th 150 feet away from the doors to a polling place on public property. My speech was not political, it was simply the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I was removed from the premises by a creative rewriting of the ordinance which state 100 feet from the polling place. At the same time, there were political signs well within that distance. They were only removed after I pointed out that fact.

Another incident involved proposition 8 in California, where there was a loud crowd gathered against proposition 8, and an elderly woman walks in with nothing but a cross, saying nothing, and she gets shouted down and assaulted, and the cross trampled by an angry mob. This mob supposedly is against hate and intolerance. Perhaps they could demonstrate some love and tolerance!

There is something seriously wrong in America if people are allowed on private property to invade a service of worship and inflict pornographic images and language on children with no arrest or prosecution, while ministers on public property are not even allowed to offer tracts or practice free speech or their religion within their rights as citizens without being punished. Currently, Evangelist Shawn Holes as top return to South Dakota to fight this frivolus charge against him on December 16th, at significant expense to himself, while the homosexual protestors in Michigan and in California face no such prosecution.

But watch for this type of treatment to continue. The days of the church having the right to choose who they employ and the texts that they use from the Bible and where they choose to preach and teach are soon coming to a close. If Obama an his liberal cronies have their way, some of the Bible will be billed as hate speech. Any preaching that specifies sins will be construed as illegal speech and a hate crime. And, I am afraid, that many churches in America will hardly notice the change, because they rarely preach biblical truths any more after all. You can not find 'hate speech' in a Dr. Seuss or Beatles sermon series. Of course, you cannot find the Bible there either.

Obama the Messiah?

2008-11-10T06:51:00.003-06:00

No, He is not.

And yet, there are many who are ready and willing to believe he is!

We must, as Christians, pray for our leaders. But, we also must remember that our leader and Lord is Jesus Christ. When we lift up any leader above our Lord, that is idolatry, and we are prone to fall for the lies of the enemy. We must lift up Jesus and His Word above any political talk. We must honor and respect our leaders, but not above our Lord. If our leaders command us to do something in opposition to scripture, we must refuse, and not just go along with the crowd. There is a way to do that that is honoring to the Lord, but I am afraid that it will result in the loss of freedom in these coming years for those who make a stand for Jesus and for His Word. Be prepared.

This video is humorous, but I am afraid in this culture, very close to true. This is the way the soviets adored their premiers, and, as an athiestic society, literally worshipped them.

Newsflash: South Dakota University Board of Regents trumps the Constitution.

2008-10-31T08:22:00.004-05:00

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and
to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

South Dakota Universities Board of Regents: (As quoted by Keith Bundy) You can
be on the edges of campus. You can hold signs, but you cannot pass out
literature, accost people or preach.

Now my friends, this should concern you, whether or not you agree with the message that is being spoken by me and my friends. In two separate incidents, Shawn Holes, an Evangelist, was accosted by authorities. In one case he was arested for trespassing for passing out Gospel tracts. He was deprived of his liberty for an hour and a half, and deprived of $150 for bail. This was for handing out literature with a simple gospel message on it. In the second incident, which I was a part of, we were given permission by the vice president of the University to speak on his campus. As we were speaking and dialogueing with students, some of the campus ministers from INTERVARSITY

got offended, and broke the 9th commandment and Matthew 18:15 by going to the secular authority and reporting that they were offended.

These were 'christians' who do not like the Gospel..amazing. In fact, one of these 'christians' came out of a prayer meeting and ripped up a placard with John 3:3 on it. He must not have liked that verse which states 'you must be born again'.

In the ensuing time, we were assaulted by faculty, told we would have to leave by police, one of the officers damaged my camera lens, and our civil rights were cast aside for political correctness.

Many students who we were dialogueing with came over and spoke to me privately and were astonished that there was such a big deal made, and afraid that their first amendment freedoms would go away. They did not agree with our message, but they agreed with our right to be there and to preach the message. It was the non believers, the pagans, who had the most energy about hearing the good news and our right to proclaim it. It was the christians and some of the 'educators' who wanted to stop the message of truth.

My friends, you had better pray very hard. if this is the direction which we are going as a nation, we are headed for big trouble. Even worse, there are many christians out there who are going to come to that last day and face Jesus Christ and he will proclaim to them depart from me I never knew you! They will say Lord, Lord, didn't we do good works, and He will say depart from me you workers of lawlessness. It is not those who do good, moral things that will see the kingdom of heaven, it is those who do the will of the Father in heaven. (see Matthew 7)

Vote Your Conscience

2008-10-24T11:20:00.000-05:00

A Vote for Obama is a Vote for More Abortion

Approximately 1.21 million abortions took place in the U.S. in 2006. That is more than 3,300 abortions per day. Since abortion became legal in the U.S., millions of abortions have been performed. I personally have seen statistics indicating that there have been 928 million abortions worldwide since 1920 -- almost a billion! Statistics say there are approximately 42 million abortions worldwide per year. That's almost 115,000 abortions per day.

Frankly, this should make Christians vomit, weep uncontrollably, and cry out to God for mercy that He would put an end to this abomination, but eighteen percent of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical" (however, I believe if you as a Christian had an abortion, or you before you were a Christian had an abortion, and have since been born again, God will forgive you if you ask, as is written in 1 John 1:9).

And now, here we are, a Presidential election coming up. Do we vote our consciences? Can you vote for Obama and still call yourself a Christian?

In a Washington Post article, Michael Gerson, an Op-Ed columnist said:

"But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be 'punished with a baby' because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life."

Kimberly Daniels in an article at http://fireinmybones.com/, speaking of Obama, writes:

"We know, for example, that he is an inclusionist. For 20 years he attended a church in Chicago that preaches that (1) Jesus is not the only way to God; (2) there is no hell; and (3) God will allow homosexuals to go to heaven even if they remain in their sinful state. Obama also has defended the killing of unborn babies, even in the third trimester.

He claims to be a Christian, but in his book The Audacity of Hope he calls the first chapter of Romans an 'obscure' passage of Scripture."

Christian: I cannot see how you can vote for Barack Obama and call yourself a Christian.

I hope this article speaks to your conscience. God says that He knit you in your mother's womb (Psalm 139:13), and knew you before you were born (Jeremiah 1:5). He also says that you shall not murder (Exodus 20:13).

Vote your conscience.

Th Freedm of Choice Act- Obama lies again regarding abortion

2008-10-15T13:54:00.001-05:00

The pro-abortion lobby is pushing this bill which will knock down every single restriction on abortion in this country. Effects of this bill include:

1. Partial-birth abortion, or the dismembering of babies as they are being born, will now be legal.

2. Parental consent laws for minors will no longer be in effect. Although a seventeen-year-old girl has to have her parents present in order to get acne medicine, a thirteen-year-old can get an abortion without her parents knowing. Think of the injury done to these young women, as well as to their children!

3. Laws prohibiting public funding of abortion will be struck down. The American taxpayer will now have to fund something many of us know to be murder.

4. Laws requiring women to be shown information about and alternatives to abortion will be struck down.

5. Laws allowing medical staff and hospitals to refuse to perform abortion on grounds of conscience will be struck down. (Where's the freedom of choice here?)

6. Laws prohibiting medical personnel other than licensed physicians from performing abortions would be invalidated because they may "interfere with" access to abortion. (Talk about protection for women!)

7. Government agencies and officials are prohibited from taking any action that would "discriminate against the exercise of" the FOCA-created legal rights, with respect to any "benefits, facilities, services, or information," would leave government officials open to lawsuits for anything that anybody thought "discriminate(s)" against abortion.

Barack Obama said that he will pass this law if he is elected (http://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/22/obama_statement_on_35th_annive.php).

Legalized abortion on demand has pitted mother against child and has created a culture of death that forces women to choose between their children and their educations, jobs, and housing. We need REAL, life-affirming solutions to difficult pregnancies, not more of the same. We need laws that support the rights of mothers and babies, not laws that, like FOCA, abandon women and their children to the unregulated greed of the abortion industry.

FOCA defends "to the death" a choice that is invalid in the first place - the idea that mothers and their children are enemies. Legalized abortion perpetuates the status quo - that a pregnant woman must choose between meeting her child's needs and her own. We can do better than that - we can and we must love them both. We can and we must change the status quo in this country that says that abortion is an acceptable solution to an unexpected pregnancy. We can and we must offer creative and practical solutions that identify and solve the root causes that drive women to abortion. FOCA perpetuates more of the same and does NOTHING to eliminate the root causes that drive women to abortion in the first place.

Furthermore, FOCA eliminates the freedom of pro-life doctors to refuse to perform abortions. Doctors who continue to refuse to perform abortions could be sued and barred from practice. Fewer doctors = higher healthcare costs for Americans and unemployed doctors.

The American voter is the only protection for both these babies and their mothers. Don't vote for candidates who want to destroy life. Vote for candidates who will uphold our Constitution's guarantee of the right to life.

The Catholic Vote

2008-10-14T08:49:00.002-05:00

Even though there is a Catholic hypocrite joined with a 'christian muslim'on the democratic ticket, The Catholic Church is one I stand with on this very issue: Defense of Life and Family. The Catholic hypocrite Biden seems to think that life is a matter of religious opinion that cannot be brought into the government or be regulated by the government. The chritian/muslim or muslim/christian Obama thinks that babies are a punnishment for a mistake and that every woman has the right to a dead baby. This video is excellent, for it lays out the very fact that there is no more important issue to our American way of life than how we deal with human life, from conception to natural death. Please watch, please pray, and please cast your vote for life.

Obama, theDemocrats, and Emergents.

2008-10-13T08:34:00.002-05:00

One of my favorite radio shows does a segment called linking, where they link a few seemingly unrelated things together. I have done that here regarding Obama and why emergents like him so much. This recent election cycle has me rather discouraged, because lies are allowed to rule the day. Nobody holds these candidates accoutable for what they say; least of all when it comes to Obama and the emergent (see liberal)'christians' who are campaigning and voting for him.

Obama has as his main economic advisor Franklin Ranes, who drove Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae into the ground by giving loans to pople who could not afford to pay them back and profited from it to the tune of 90 million dollars. Many of those dollars went into Obama's pocket; In his short life as a US senator, he was the #2 receiver of campaign and PAC money from Raines and Fannie Mae. Now the Federal Government insures banks,and these risky mortgages. Banks bought these loans, thinking the government would back them up. Now we have huge amoounts of defaults on these loans, and America is paying the price.

Obama and his liberal democrat cronies in the senate and house refused to reign in Raines in 2004, when the Republicans were calling for more regulation, they were calling it a lynching. Obama in 2008 says he wanted to regulate the system. That is a lie. He said that McCain wanted to deregulate. That is also a lie. Obama wants to help/prop up the poor;so do the emergents, and they rightly see helping the poor as a Christian duty, a call from our Lord. I agree, but I believe the way you help them is not by putting them into a home which they cannot afford, thus now facing a forclosure and bankrupcy; who will even rent to these poor people with these financial black marks?

So, as Christians, should we support a liar, who has done more harm than good for poor people, and on top of it, will not stand for the most innocent and helpless?
I think not. Do no be fooled, emergents, by the siren song and the promises of Obama. The promises will not be kept; but I suppose you will still find a way to justify your vote in the postmodern mishmash of your worldview. At least watch this video and learn the truth!

Obama's stand on abortion

2008-10-07T08:54:00.002-05:00

This is a video that shows some amazing abortion statistics. Something like 90% of abortions are as the result of a careless pregnancy. The 'life of the mother' rape, incest excuse is less than 10% of the abortions in this country.

Obama being elected would be a punishment for a mistake.

Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt and the Folsom Street Fair

2008-09-30T10:51:00.004-05:00

This is truly utterly shocking how close we are to Babylon and the end of days as demonstrated by the Folsom Street Fair in San Fransisco, Ca. There were illegal public acts of indecency that rivaled the private orgies in Rome. Public nudity is illegal, but that law was not enforced as there were many people walking about nude. That is not the half of it; there were public sex acts that are still illegal even in the privacy of one's bedroom in many states. This unnatural sexual activity was on display while children were escorted by their parents through this festival. How far we as a nation have fallen!

God, through Paul, clearly states that these acts are a result of suppression of the truth of God, and are unnatural, and an abomination:

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

And a warning to those 'Pastors' like Tony Campolo, Jim Wallis, Doug Pagitt, Brian McLaren, and Tony Jones:

32 Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

For Brian McLaren has written:

Perhaps we need a five-year moratorium on making pronouncements. In the meantime, we'll practice prayerful Christian dialogue, listening respectfully, disagreeing agreeably. When decisions need to be made, they'll be admittedly provisional. We'll keep our ears attuned to scholars in biblical studies, theology, ethics, psychology, genetics, sociology, and related fields. Then in five years, if we have clarity, we'll speak; if not, we'll set another five years for ongoing reflection. After all, many important issues in church history took centuries to figure out. Maybe this moratorium would help us resist the "winds of doctrine" blowing furiously from the left and right, so we can patiently wait for the wind of the Spirit to set our course.

Brian, we do not need to listen to anybody else but the clear pronouncements against the homosexual lifestyle already made by God in His word! Culture does not change the Word of God, the Word of God is to shape culture!

How about Doug Pagitt?

If you communicate ideas in a certain way, say speaking from the communal setting into people’s homes they will have one understanding, but if you began in people’s homes with their ideas and then came back into the collective whole obviously their understanding will differ.

In other words, if you began a consideration of homosexuality with "the Bible says..." you would end up with a different understanding, I think, than if you began with the statement "17 families in this church have gay children and for six weeks we are going to hear stories about these gay children. We won’t know who they are, but we’ll hear there stories." Then a person can say "the Bible says...," but now, after six weeks of hearing these stories, and not knowing exactly who you are talking about, the statement about the Bible will fit in a different relationship to the community. Ultimately, that’s what I think progressional dialogue does: it repositions the Bible and makes it an authoritative community member.

No, the Bible is the sole authority of Christian life and practice, and when it says something is morally wrong, it does not matter what the culture says, Doug. Maybe you have been opening up your mind too much through Yoga!

Tony Jones, speaking regarding the Emergent Movement:

We have everything you could imagine. We have Texas Baptists who don’t let women preach, and we have lesbian mainline pastors in New England… As a follower of Christ and a theologian, I have no qualms speaking out about things that I don’t agree with. Emergent demands such rigor in the friendship accountability area that people who don’t want it will very quickly fall out of it. It’s not about theology, but you can’t come in if you aren’t ready for your theology to be challenged.......We haven’t yet found that there’s anything that justifies us breaking fellowship with somebody else who loves and is trying to follow Jesus. Why would you break fellowship with someone because you have a different understanding of the atonement than they do? Or a different understanding of human sexuality than they do? It seems nonsensical that we’d give each other tests and try to hang it over someone else’s head and say, “Hey, dude. I’m going to break fellowship with you if we can’t come to agreement on this particular issue. ” It just doesn’t seem to be the nature of human life… I certainly don’t think that the issue of absolute truth is a good reason to break fellowship with someone who’s trying to follow Jesus.

But Tony, that is just what the scripture says to do! we are to expel the immoral brother!

Tony Campolo?

Tony Campolo and his wife Peggy, a gay rights advocate, have participated in very public debates and discussions about the place of lesbians and gays within church and society. Tony Campolo contends that homosexuality is a sin in practice, though not in orientation. He also argues that a monogamous, sexually-active homosexual relationship is morally preferable to non-monogamous relationships. Peggy Campolo argues, as an Evangelical, that the church's traditional teaching on homosexuality is mistaken—just as the church's traditional teaching on the role of women, slavery, and divorce is also mistaken. Peggy Campolo attends Central Baptist Church in Wayne, Pennsylvania, which identifies itself as a Welcoming and Affirming congregation

So, Pastor Tony, a sin is not such a bad sin if it is a sin in a monogamous relationship? Where exactly is that in scripture? Peggy's congregation is clearly welcoming and affirming to everyone except who is supposed to be the object of worship- Jesus Christ.

What would these men say about this Folsom Street Fair? I don't think they would say anything. I think they would reserve judgement until the referenced every source except the Bible before they began making pronouncements. Meanwhile, these perverts would be welcomed into their affirming churches with no proclamation of truth stating that their chosen sin. In fact, if these folks had their way, we would have no truth proclaimed in church at all, just conversations with no conclusions, certainly not referencing the Bible. Our country is following this path down the slippery slope, and the church is allowing the culture to shape it; instead of being a bastion of truth it has been a den of wolves. God have mercy!

The right to a dead Baby: Obama's untenable position

2008-09-29T08:58:00.003-05:00

The BAIPA was designed to ensure that in those rare cases in which a baby marked for abortion happens to survive -- that the child will be immediately accorded full human and constitutional rights. The measure passed the U.S. House by a vote 380 to 15 but was blocked in the Senate. When a "neutrality clause" was inserted to the effect that the law should not be construed to limit the scope of Roe v. Wade, the measure was passed by unanimous consent and signed into law in 2002.

At the time, Barack Obama was an Illinois state senator. An almost exact copy of the federal bill was introduced in 2001. Obama opposed it, saying, "I mean it, it would essentially bar abortions because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute." Even though the baby would be completely separated from the mother. In 2003, the Illinois legislature added a neutrality clause to the bill, making it a virtual clone of the federal legislation. As chairman of the committee considering the bill, Obama again opposed it, saying, "... an additional doctor who then has to be called in an emergency situation and make these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman ..."

Barack Obama is a charming and intelligent man. But there is no other way to interpret his position on BAIPA than this: A woman who chooses an abortion is entitled to a dead child no matter what. That is an abortion extremist.

HT Real Clear Politics

How can a Christian justify voting for Obama/Biden?

2008-09-27T19:56:00.002-05:00

I have major issues with believers who would cast aside their faith at the voting booth. I especially feel it is disingenuous of the emergent or the Catholic voter who follow what they call their Christian faith, yet do not care about the most basic of human rights when it comes to Obama- the right of a human being to live.

Obama is far left of many in his own party. In Illinois, He refused to support a bill that would protect the living, breathing human life that was the result of a late term and botched abortion. Nope, he gave the doctors the right to decide to murder a living human being. The health care proposal that he would place into effect would not only bankrupt many small businesses, but it would require that taxpayers would support the right of a woman to kill her unborn child. In other words, if a person is too poor to pay for health insurance, our government would pay for them- and for these murders. I do not believe that God will bless this nation if we support such a plan.

Obama calls a child a mistake, that is, if one of his daughters was irresponsible with her body, he would not want her punished for her mistake with a child. Forget personal responsibility, no, lets use postsex and post pregnancy contraception through abortion. No, Obama claims, he does not like abortions. He wants to reduce the numbers of abortions. Then why does he have the most liberal, radical point of view? What about rape, incest, and health of the mother? These account for fewer than 8% of the abortions performed. Make no mistake; the majority of abortions performed are because a child was unplanned for- a mistake on the part of the mother (and father).

The emergent types claim they can vote for Obama because the other 'human rights' issues trump this one. They scream 'what about all the deaths caused by George Bush due to this war?'

'What about people who die for lack of money/health insurance?' This is an ugly red herring. If you are against the war, so be it. This does NOT justify the murder of innocents. Two 'wrongs' do not make it right. The war has freed more people than it has killed, it has given them the right to pursue life and liberty. How soon do my liberal friends forget that people were daily murdered by Saddam at his psychotic whim! How my feminist friends forget the rape rooms where women were systematically raped and tortured! How many forget that women were less than second class citizens in Afghanistan; now they can actually go to school and learn to read and to write!

Obama should not be an option for you if you are a follower of Jesus Christ. If you just wear your faith on your sleeve, then feel free to vote. You cannot follow the clear teaching of scripture and vote for a person who is not a supporter of human life from the womb to the tomb.

Parody Predicts the Future: The New Emergent Version of Scripture

2008-08-16T12:26:00.002-05:00

Back in June of 07, I wrote a parody piece about the Emergent view of scripture. Now, it is my understanding that Doug Pagitt and others are putting together a scripture version that will make the Message look like a scholarly work.

Here is my parody from June 07. Here is hoping truth isn't stranger than fiction:

I think I really enjoy this much better than the NIV or the KJV. This will be a real boon to building the church. People will really feel good. Check out this passage from Luke 3....
Chapter 3
John the Baptist Preaches
1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, 2 in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all athe district around the Jordan, preaching baptism of water for the cleansing of human shortcomings; 4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the God-follower,
“The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
‘Make ready the way of the Lord,which no one can really know, so make His paths wide.
5 Every ravine will be filled, And every mountain and hill will be brought low;
The narrow will become wide, And the rough roads smooth catching all who say I believe, 6 And all flesh will see the salvation of God, no one being left out.’ ”
7 So he began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, “You sad little puppy dogs, who invited you to come to find purpose in your life?
8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with being sorry, lonely, and filling a god-shaped hole and if you want to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ go ahead! 9 “Indeed the hammock is already laid at the roots of the trees; so every tree with shade will make you comfortable, giving you good rest.”
10 And the crowds were questioning him, saying, “Then what shall we do to have purpose, meaning, love, peace, and happiness, and our best life now?”
11 And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to donate one to who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise, for God will reward you for doing nice things, and you will feel better.” 12 And some tax collectors also came to be baptized, and they said to him, “Teacher, how can we have our best life now?” 13 And he said to them, “Collect no more than what you have been ordered to.”
14 Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what is our purpose?” And he said to them, “Do not be soldiers, because killing is not very loving and kind. Don't be content with your wages, sow a seed so god can multiply your wages.” 15 Now while the people were in a state of expectation about their purpose and best life now, feeling comfortable in John's preaching, having their ears tickeled, all were wondering in their hearts about John, as to whether he was the Christ, 16 John answered and said to them all, “As for me, I am just giving you a bath with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will come into your heart to give you a more satisfying life. After all, we can't really know him, or trust the scriptures, because we can never really understand the word that god had spoken previously. 17 But I think it might be like this: “His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather anyone who asks into His barn; but He will help those who do not want to seek with encouraging helpful words.” 18 So with many other exhortations he shared encouraging, helpful words with the people. 19 But when Herod the tetrarch was spoken to him because of Herodias, his brother’s wife, and because of all the things which Herod had done,that would keep him from having a satisfying and peaceful life 20 Herod also added this to them all: he was very intolerant and locked John up in prison.

The original Article: WHERE IS THE LIBEL???

2008-07-28T13:50:00.002-05:00

You can see the original article that set off the Abanes controversy at this site. I am issuing a challenge: Read the article, and show me and others where the libel is. Before we do this, let us set some definitions:

An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

1li·bel
1 a: a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought barchaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a: a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1): a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2): defamation of a person by written or representational means (3): the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4): the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

slander
A type of defamation. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

For slander or libel to be considered as a tort or a wrong in legalese, and not mere opinion, these things must be in place:

Typically, the elements of a cause of action for defamation include:

A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement);
If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
Damage to the plaintiff.

Attacks on a person's professional character or standing;
Allegations that an unmarried person is unchaste;
Allegations that a person is infected with a sexually transmitted disease;
Allegations that the person has committed a crime of moral turpitude; (The actual case when Ingrid Schleuter was attacked)

Lets play Perry Mason: Would any lawyer actually take this case? Which line? Would any judge schedule this? Does Richard have a grasp of what Slander vs. opinion is?

Why are we fighting about this? Because everyone is now under a threat of law because of this false accusation. One website being taken down is just the beginning. If you are a Christian, you will lose your right to stand on scripture if attacks like this are not fought.

Richard Abanes and the downfall of Matthew 18 and the First Amendment

2008-07-27T09:10:00.003-05:00

Richard Abanes is an award winning author and apologist who has had his feelings hurt, and now there are implications for the world of bloggers, Pastors, and Christians who choose to speak the truth in love, though it may sometimes hurt.

He has been roundly criticized by many (including myself) on his blind devotion to Rick Warren, everything purpose driven, the P.E.A.C.E. plan, etc. Though he has done some important works about such things as Mormonism, Eckhardt Tolle, Harry Potter, and etc, he may be shooting himself in the foot by what he has done to a small, but important part of the Bloggosphere.

Ken Silva is the small part of the Bloggospere who has been a critic of Richard Abanes and Rick Warren. He wrote a little piece in 2005 that hurt Richard's feelings. No one was reading it, but it stuck in Richard's craw. So he wrote a letter to the ISP threatening legal action of they did not take it down. They in turn wrote Ken Silva, who rightfully refused to take it down. Now, the entire discernment site is down. The sad thing is, it is down as the result of lies and innuendos by another Christian brother, done publicly, for the world to see.

Ken and I do not always agree, recently Ken's writings about Ray Comfort have left me a little frustrated. But Ken is a brother in Christ, as Richard agrees, and yet Richard has refused to go to Ken privately to resolve this matter. The reasoning? Ken is not reasonable. Matthew 18 does not say to go to your brother privately if he is reasonable in your estimation. It says if a brother has wronged you, take up the matter with him privately. Not in Richard's world; no, we skip that step entirely, going outside of the scripture and we bring it to an outside power (the ISP), threaten a lawsuit, and then bring it to the church here. In case you want to accuse me of hypocrisy, I have written Richard privately (I cannot show you the e-mail or the response because it is copywrited as I have found out) and explained my frustration with his behavior. We have taken it to the church of the bloggosphere now.

What is the problem, you ask? Now anyone who has an objection to what you write or think has the precedent set by a Christian leader that if we do not like what you write, all we need to do is contact your ISP and threaten a lawsuit because there is slander on your site. The ISP will respond, because they are afraid of lawsuits against slander and being named in them.

The further problem is that Richard has said he never intended to file a lawsuit, he just said he would in the copywrited letter to I-Power. Isnt that a lie? I think so. Either Richard sinned by lying, or by going to law against a brother, as well as stepping outside of Matthew 18 to do so.

I know that some of the stuff I write here is inflammatory, but it is all my opinion based upon what people write and what they say on video or audio. I have had people threaten me with lawsuits, but I will not quit writing and addressing what I see as the Down-Grade of the American Church. This is just the most recent sad example of it. Watch your back if you choose to write based on scripture, because someone will be offended and tear down your Blog site.

Newsflash: Paul shares the stage with false Teachers and heretics and refuses to criticize them

2008-07-24T11:09:00.003-05:00

Athens, Greece 45 AD

Luke, reporting for The Acts of the Apostles

18A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19Then they (the false teachers) took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean." 21(All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.

24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

32When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." 33At that, Paul left the Council. 34A few men became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.

I know it is a shock, but Paul, proven by this article, at the request of religious false teachers, went to a meeting of the Aereopogus, where people sat around and listened to false teachings.

How dare he go to this place of false teaching and proclaim the Gospel without criticizing the false teachers that were there! He only proclaimed the Gospel, at their invitation, to a group of people. And, what was worse, he was invited back again to introduce the glorious Gospel! This happened even after people heard his message and believed.

The last thing that we should do is go to a place that is filled with different, even heretical religious ideals and followers of false teachers and proclaim the Gospel. I am very disappointed with Paul, even though generally I love his ministry.

Why is Ray Comfort preaching at a Prosperity Church Conference?

2008-07-04T09:36:00.002-05:00

Ray Comfort, of the ministry Living Waters, is a great man of God. He loves the Lord very much and is willing to risk much in order to win the lost in our country, and around the world. He will literally go anywhere to preach the Gospel; which is why I was not surprised he would be preaching at a prosperity conference. "Where else" I thought "could he reach thousands of false converts under one roof? " And the miraculous preaching of the law and the Gospel will be in the hearing of guys like Rod Parsley and Jesse Duplantis!"

Ray was called to task so to speak over at Slice of Laodecia and Apprising Ministries by my friends Ingrid and Ken. Their concern is that Ray is in a sense tacitly approving of the prosperity Gospel by being advertised as being a part of this conference. They both desire for Ray to take this evangelistic opportunity to tear down the false teaching of Prosperity. While I agree that the prosperity gospel is no gospel at all, in fact it is from the pit of Hell, that is not Ray's ministry. Ray is an evangelist, and it is his passion that all people might be saved. Ray answered in a letter published over at Slice of Laodecia

Dear Brother and Sister:

You and I both love our Savior, and because we have been forgiven much, we share a passion to see lost souls saved from Hell. It is the highest honor and greatest duty of the Christian to proclaim the saving Gospel. That has been my passion for thirty years.

Because of my profound concern that souls are saved for the glory of God, I have spoken in nearly a thousand churches, not from one particular denomination, but from almost every denomination. I believe this has happened because I believe our churches are filled with false converts because we have moved away from biblical evangelism. The fields are white for the harvest, and those fields are frequently inside of evangelical churches of all denominations.

I have never turned down any request to speak because I thought that the church’s doctrine was unbiblical. In fact, they are the invitations I have gladly accepted because I know that false conversions are the fruit of their heretical doctrines. Unsaved people sit in pews in the millions in this country because they have never heard the biblical gospel–and I have to say with Paul, “How will they hear without a preacher?”

What I have been doing for all these years has been below the radar screen of public scrutiny, until recently. Suddenly the spotlights are on and I am targeted (and fired at) as one that is endorsing false doctrine.

I am not and have never been a prosperity preacher. I think it is a great error to say that Jesus was rich, etc., or to come to Him for wealth. I preach the simple gospel of Jesus Christ crucified for the sin of the world. That is the heart and soul of my preaching and teaching.

May I implore you, dear friend–what would you do? Imagine you were invited to speak at an event or church where false teaching has created false converts. You know that a thousand people will hear a true Gospel presentation from your lips. Would you turn down the invitation?

I know that not everyone agrees with me on this issue. Please, consider my ministry, and my heart. I know we can disagree on this issue and still love one another, can’t we?

And so, I will continue to preach open air to anyone who will listen, to preach at atheist conventions if I am invited, and to preach to those who are deceived by false doctrine. That may mean that my so-called reputation will be marred, and that I will feel the pain of what is commonly called “friendly fire.” I simply wanted you to understand my heart. Thank you for considering this.

Ray Comfort

I love Ray, and I also love both Ingrid and Ken. I disagree with Ken and Ingrid and parts of their take on this event. I believe that Ray has a ministry that is hyper focussed on saving the lost, and in 39 years of ministry, this is what He has done wherever he has gone. I think a guy like Paul Washer, Ken Silva, or even Todd Friel would be so bold, as apologists, to stand in the sanctuary (to which they would not be invited) to go after the false teaching of prosperity. And by the way, Ken and Ingrid do an excellent job of this over at their blog sites! We should (and I have) attack heretical and false teaching and expose it from our pulpits. But the most important thing we can speak of from our pulpits is the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ to the glory of GOD!

Pray for Ray's message at this conference, and pray for Ray. My prayer is that the seed scattered by the power of the Holy Spirit will find its root in prepared hearts. God, by the power of the Holy Spirit, can water and grow the seed planted, and weed out the false teaching. Amen?

Obama: Babies are a Punishment for a Mistake

2008-07-02T09:01:00.001-05:00

Nothing more needs to be said.

Yet Another reason I am reconsidering the term 'Evangelical'

2008-06-30T09:08:00.003-05:00

From the Chicago Tribune:

THE SEEKER MANYA A. BRACHEAR

Evangelicals rethink views on gays
Tribune staff report
June 13, 2008

Can the terms gay and evangelical coexist? More evangelical Christians are trying to grapple with homosexuality without straying from traditionally held views that same-sex relationships violate God's word. A private conversation between leaders of a gay-rights advocacy group called Soulforce and Willow Creek Community Church last Sunday could mark a significant turning point.

Rev. David Gushee—a professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University, a Baptist college—said Willow's welcome reflects a new attitude on the part of contemporary evangelical leaders to welcome people of all sexual orientations but to stop short of affirming relationships.

"Younger evangelicals . . . are embarrassed by the hard line against homosexuality that has come to dominate the public stance of the evangelical right," said Gushee. "They do not believe that homosexuality is a [or] the major social problem and do not believe that the major 'family values' issue is homosexuality."

What do you think? Should gay and lesbian families be free to call themselves evangelical Christians? Here's what you had to say:

Tom: "We've got so many national and international problems to deal with that I can't imagine that what gay people do is going to be a big issue in the future. The focus is supposed to be on ourselves and our own behavior and shortcomings, not on others. No one is so perfect that they can afford to judge others. If you don't believe that, you're missing the focus of Christianity and most other religions too."

Jeff: "The latest twist in the ongoing battle for attitudes and feelings is the attempt by homosexual supporters to change the church. 'Make the once wrong, now right.' This effort by the GBLT community is the most aggressive to date in its ongoing effort for acceptance of its sexual behavior."

Seth: "I am an evangelical and am most certainly gay. And I am not alone, thank God! I have wrestled with all the proscriptions in Scripture for more than three decades, and have decided that my sexual orientation is simply part of the diversity of man- and woman-kind, all of which is made in the image of the Creator. . . . I long for the day when my partner and I will be fully welcome in an evangelical church!"

Can one be a Christian, much less an evangelical, and be a practicing homosexual? What does the Bible say?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul is not being insensitive here; He is speaking God breathed words. But there are many, well meaning, Christian people that suggest that we are being cruel and heartless by suggesting that homosexuality is wrong. They claim that we must reach out to them, and I agree. But what about those practicing homosexuals who claim to be Christians? What does the Bible say about them?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

If a person is a homosexual, and is not a believer in Christ, we must and will associate with them. How else are they to hear the Gospel? We are not called to judge the unsaved, or their lifestyle. We are called to preach Christ, and Him crucified with love and grace.

We are, however, called and commanded to judge those that are inside the church, who call themselves brothers. Paul does not just name homosexuality here; it is listed with greed, idolatry, reviler, drunkard, or swindler. We are commanded not even to eat with such people! We are commanded to kick them out of the church!! Yet, Rick Warren's leadership, as well as Bill Hybels ate with the leaders of Soulforce. Why? Because Soulforce wants to convince evangelical leaders and thus their churches that homosexual practice and evangelical Christianity are compatable lifestyles.

The Apostle Paul says differently. The inspired Word of God says differently. But the seeker sensitive church is more concerned with filling seats, reaching people with a dumbed down message clothed in entertainment. The Emergent church has no standard of doctrine, and questions the Bible, especially any word not written in red. After all, many emergents teach, everyone is going to heaven. It is no wonder with teaching like this, many evangelicals are conforming their beliefs so they can feel more comfortable in the world.

Another reason I am reconsidering the term 'Evangelical'

2008-06-28T07:59:00.002-05:00

From the AP newswire:

Meanwhile, Obama's campaign is aggressively reaching out to evangelicals.
The Illinois senator dispatched former 9/11 Commission member Tim Roemer to meet with fellow Roman Catholics. He sent Brian McLaren, one of the country's most influential pastors, to meet with fellow evangelicals. And aides have conducted more than 200 "American Values Forums," soon to be followed up with house parties and town hall-style meetings aimed at young Catholics and young evangelicals.
Obama's strategy isn't aimed at outpolling McCain among evangelicals.
"Obama knows he can't win (among evangelicals)," said Berlinerblau, who wrote "Thumpin' It: The Use and Abuse of the Bible in Today's Presidential Politics."
"If he can get up for 21 to 30 percent, he's gold," Berlinerblau said. "And that's exactly what he's doing. He's going to fissure off this progressive evangelical voter."

Earlier this month we read that Evangelicals are beginning to accept homosexuality as a non-issue related to being a Christian. Where are we going in this world? It is just as Jesus said that in the last times there would be a great falling away. We are seeing the fruit of years of 'evangelical' Pastors watering down the word, cheapening grace, and turning church into entertainment so that the itching ears of the MTV generation could be satisfied.

Now we have recognized as an 'evangelical leader' a person who believes that the cross and hell are false advertising for God. Brian McLaren does not believe the cross was for the justification of sinners, indeed, he does not believe that God would send a person to Hell! He is among the leaders with Jim Wallis of this movement to receive homosexuals into full fellowship and acceptance into the church! How is it that he speaks for Evangelicals? Because Evangelicals clearly have ceased either a) reading the Word of God or b) caring what the word of God says.

This generation of evangelicals is starving to death because they do not eat the bread of God's Word not do they drink in the living waters provided by the Holy Spirit.

Take this to the political arena, and we can see why young 'evangelical' christians can be swayed and fooled into thinking that it is okay to vote for a person such as Obama. At best, Obama has a checkered christian past. At worst, he would be a great representative for this generation who lacks discernment. Note: He sat for more than 20 years under the racist, liberation theology of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and it took the godless liberal media to expose it before he had the sense to leave it. Obama voted against a ban on partial-birth abortion; again, these young evangelicals (see Emergent) christians are willing to look by the fact that Obama is for murdering babies who would be viable outside the womb!! Taken to a purely logical standpoint, Obama is far too young and inexperienced to be a president. His statements that he would negotiate with terrorists like Hamas and the Leader of Iran is proof that he has no idea how to lead a free nation that stands for justice in the world.

Finally, it is not just the young evangelicals that are suckered. Obama's presence at Saddleback and speaking in Saddleback's pulpit is a sad commentary on the discernment of other (see Rick Warren's) leading evangelical Pastors. There is no way that either McCain or Obama would be in our pulpit at our church unless they were born-again!

This is another reason why I am seriously thinking of abandoning the term evangelical in favor of being a reconciliationist.

The Gospel according to Rick Warren

2008-06-19T10:16:00.002-05:00

Is Saddleback, and other Purpose Driven Churches, filled with people who are truly in the family of God? Who are truly born again?

I can see why, after viewing this video, and observing American cultural Christianity why there is an 80% attrition rate after people go to conferences and crusades and 'accept Christ'. I can see why statistics bear out that in our 'evangelical' denominations the divorce rate exceeds the general populations' divorce rate. I can see why the percentage of men addicted to sex and pornography mirrors the general population. I can see why, as Bill Hybels sees, that many christians in Seeker Sensitive churches do not move deeper into relationship with Christ, into a study of his Word, into a daily practice of prayer. I can see why Pastors and laypeople who consider themselves Christians can live sinful lifestyles, and curse thier 'brothers and sisters' in Christ?

I can see why there are so many bitter backsliders. As my friend Ray Comfort says...They never slid forward in the first place!

I urge you: Pastor, Christian, Layperson...Watch Hells Best Kept Secret and the Follow up- True and False Conversions. You will be amazed, shocked...perhaps even born-again for the first time.

Hells Best Kept Secret

True and False Conversion

Is this poem fitting for a Christian, or a PASTOR? Updated

2008-06-18T10:31:00.005-05:00

Here is a poem, Tell me what you think:

I’d rather be an alcoholic,
- - than be a legalist.
I’d rather see my teenage daughter knocked up
- - than boast in her righteousness.
I’d rather have a church full of porn addicts
- - than a bunch of self-righteous pricks.
I’d rather be damn near anything
- - than be a legalist.
‘Cause legalists are heretics and the rest of that stuff’s just sin.
Legalists are going to gnaw their tongues forever
- - while the prostitutes come on in.
For Jesus loves all kinds of sinners,
- - though yes he tells them to stop
But Paul wishes that legalists would
- - cut their dicks right off.

This vulgar quote was made and justifiedhere

This site, a 'mirror' to a discernment site, is a place where comments like this are frequent. The language of an ADM is one where, a self righteous person is a person (like me) that is saved by grace, trying to walk in the way of righteousness by the power of the Holy Spirit, as Peter said "Be holy, for I am holy'. The ADM is a creature who will defend any position as long as it can be proven by a broad, liberal interpretation of scripture. The ADM fights those who are labeled ODM's, who take the Scripture literally, and attempt to use the scripture (as the scripture commands) to 'test the spirits' to see if they are from Christ.

Being a legalist is wrong; we are not saved by what we do, and certainly we are not sanctified by what we do not do! We are saved by a work of Jesus Christ, it is called being born again. God draws us, gives us faith and the ability to repent, and the ability to trust his provision for our sins, the Lord Jesus Christ.

This quote reflects the heart, and the church philosophy of many ADM's. This is why they defend purpose driven, the emergent heresy, and other Church Growth and liberal theology methods. Let us take this line by line:

I'd rather be an alcoholic than a legalist: The author would rather elevate the sin of alcoholism than the sin of legalism. Both are wrong in God's eyes, both need to be repented of. An alcoholic is not better than a legalist, or vice versa.

I’d rather see my teenage daughter knocked up
- - than boast in her righteousness. I don't think we should wish for either; the one is indicating that sex outside of marriage is wrong (using a crass colloquialism). We are called as Christians to boast in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is for sinners to boast in their own righteousness, a Christian would not do so. I would rather that your daughter (and mine) would be brought up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and that she would love Jesus more than sexual desires. I would hope that if she did fall in this way that I would be a loving dad and take care of her and the baby.

I’d rather have a church full of porn addicts
- - than a bunch of self-righteous pricks. Recent statistics tell us that you likely do have a church full of Porn Addicts! It is unfortunate but true, many pulpits are filled with porn addicts! This is because the holiness and righteousness and justice and fear of God is downgraded in our churches. It is the cheap grace (see license) that says 'Just believe 1 John 1:9, and you will be forgiven' What about Matthew 7 that says 'depart from me, you workers of iniquity (or you who practice lawlessness) There are many false converts that are likely in your pews, pastor. I would pray that you would preach the whole counsel of God so that that the legalists and those addicted to porn would be convicted and converted.

I’d rather be damn near anything
- - than be a legalist. Really? So is that why you are a 'pastor'? I wonder where it is you are guiding your sheep? What are you protecting them from, if you would rather have a church full of porn addicts, adulterers, fornicators, etc. ?

‘Cause legalists are heretics and the rest of that stuff’s just sin.
Legalists are going to gnaw their tongues forever
- - while the prostitutes come on in.
For Jesus loves all kinds of sinners,
- - though yes he tells them to stop
Legalists are heretics? really? They are going to knaw their tongues forever? really? Isn't that being a little bit...umm...searching for a word here...legalistic? Pastor, you are doing here what you object to on your precious CRN.info site, you are saying that one group of people that you perceive to be bad are going to hell, and elevating porn addicts, prostitutes, and other sinners as being more righteous than legalists. I have news for you, Pastor, unless you are converted, you too will also perish! All adulterers, fornicators, murderers, liars will have their place in a lake of fire. That is why we must repent of our sins, and place our trust in the Savior alone. Because these things you list are what some of us were...(including myself) but I have been bought with a price, and now I leave those things behind, and I do not practice lawlessness, not because it makes me a better person and more approved by God, but because Romans 8 I live by the spirit, and I do not owe the flesh anything. Those who live by the flesh will die! Those who live by the Spirit will LIVE!

That last line....hmmm.... where is that crude depiction in scripture?

Pastor, I do pray for you. Repent and trust the Savior before it is too late.

UPDATE***

While I still hold to my opinion of the poem as being crass and judgmental, and I object to the use of the language by any pastor or one who would call himself or herself a believer in Jesus, I believe that this post was received in a spirit of condemnation by the person about whom it was written.

I am quite satisfied that my point was made clearly that my objection was to the poem, and in the comparison of sins as one being better than the other. It is the last line as written by me that was received by a pastor in Owosso, Mi as being one of condemnation. He believes that by my encouragement for Him to repent and trust the Savior that I was condemning him. I have asked forgiveness of him, for this was not my intent. I would like to emphasize that I do not believe that this pastor is going to Hell because he uses crude language or quotes nasty poems. I was simply (yet apparently badly) encouraging him to examine himself (as I would encourage myself and others) to do to see if we are in the faith. When we speak like this and act in a condemning way towards anyone, we are not being light and salt. Sometimes, my desire to protect the church goes overboard. God is quite able to protect and keep his flock.

In saying this, I am in no way saying language like this is becoming to a servant of God, nor am I encouraging sin. I am saying that it is good for everyone (including myself) to examine our motives as well as our actions when we are correcting or admonishing others who claim to be in the household of faith.

I have not been blogging here lately

2008-06-10T08:40:00.003-05:00

I have not been blogging here lately, as our church is growing and I am busy with visiting, counseling, family stuff etc. I have also been privileged to be a part of the first two Ambassadors Academies in Los Angeles, the first as a trainee, and the second as a group leader.

But here is the deal; The Down Grade has continued at it seems a breakneck pace and I feel out of the loop.

For example, there is a false revival going on in Lakeland, Fla. with a guy named Todd Bentley. Whats worse, though he does not use the Bible, and preaches about angels in direct contradiction to the Bible, there are many 'christians' that are like sheep being led astray. This greatly saddens me, because it is clear that their ears are being tickled, and there are many false converts being made. This is a result of the Down Grade; we have downgraded the value of scripture, so charletons can come in and fool people into believing that just about anything that benefits them or looks good or seems blessed by size and big buildings that it is a good thing.

Then there are followers of other false gospels that look good, and feel good, but require not the repentance and faith in Christ alone. There is Carlos Shelton, for example, who spouts

"… but I have heard him say that if he served Jesus, though not knowing the name specific “Jesus” then that person be them of another religion will be saved. There are many “Christians” in Muslim nations where is is illegal to convert. So they are “Christian” as they believe in Jesus (do they?), yet are “Muslim” and attend mosque. Mostly this is out of survival. Yet, by stating that they cannot do so would mean instant death to them. That is one example. ......If a Muslim serves the One True God and Jesus but lives as a Muslim he will be saved by God through Jesus as you and I will be. If you ever have time to listen to Samir Selmanovic’s (who has opened the hodge podge faith house where all monotheistic religions 'worship' together) testimony, his mother was Christian but practices Islam to stay alive. Which is how Samir became a Christian… he caught his mother praying to Jesus and had to decide to have her killed or look at what she believed in so much as to risk her own life in doing so."

Then there is the Church Basement road show, which is criss-crossing the country satirizing revival as though it is something you can buy and associates snake oil salesmen with evangelists. The mockery of true believers by people who call themselves christians really disturbs me.

Then, there is CRN.info, which claims that they are in business to expose those who would discern other ministries (like this site). They criticize those who use the blogosphere to examine ministries and ministers through scripture, then despite their statement to the contrary, uses mean-spirited ad-hominem attacks on Christians, and then justify it by saying that they are defenders of those who have been exposed as false teachers: Listen to their content goals:

"In Content
The Apostle John wrote about his encounter with a first-century forerunner of “watchdogs” named Diotrephes:
I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will have nothing to do with us. So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.
Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God. (3 John 1:9-11)
Contrary to some misunderstanding, the primary sin of Diotrephes and his modern decendants is not one of tone - which very well may be an additional issue - rather, it is a sin of entitlement and gracelessness in becoming a self-appointed, hypercritical gatewarden to the kingdom of God. In light of this, the first two primary differences between what we seek to be and those who we sometimes criticize are thus:
1) When we see Christians being maliciously gossiped about, we seek to follow John’s example by calling attention to it and correcting the error, in defense of the wronged brother or sister and in hopes that the one doing the gossiping will repent. It is not our intent to scandalize disagreement and debate, but rather to end the gossip and slander and to set the record straight. We seek the truth, rather than seeking to simply use straw men and guilt-by-association and other fallacious tactics to slander and gossip about our bretheren in Christ.
2) When we see Christians being “put out of the church” (literally or figuratively) for reasons apart from unrepentant living in sin or complete departure from the gospel of Jesus, we again seek to defend the wronged brother or sister, particularly if his “sin” is a matter of secondary (or tertiary) importance - often matters of conscience or preference. This does not mean that we necessarily will find outselves in complete agreement with the brother and/or sister on all matters apart from the gospel of Jesus, but that we are to show them love, regardless.
In Policy
In Matthew, we read Jesus’ words:
Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
In this, and throughout scripture, we read about personal and community accountability to our words. In terms of policy at CRN.Info, we seek to differentiate ourselves from those we may criticize, particularly in this realm of accountability. This is manifested in three basic policies:
1) Attribution: All articles written will be attributed to specific writers. All comments will have a traceable electronic signature which we will make public when we believe it may be abused by those seeking anonymity. Anything short of this is cowardice, by definition, and contrary to even the most basic of journalistic standards.
2) Open discussion: We will allow discussion on all articles (though there may be reasons to close the “comments” section on an article after a passage of time or to quell an unproductive conversation that has devolved to name-calling or similar behavior). Anyone is allowed to participate, though if the assumed good faith in this arena is abused, we may put a user on “moderation” which allows us to read the comment before it is posted to the public board so that it is seen by CRN.Info staff and responded to in a timely fashion. We have not yet “banned” anyone, nor do we intend to. Additionally, we do not seek to be “yes men/women” to each other, and we will use this open discussion as a way to hold each other accountable - though in some matters we may choose private email for correction.
3) No deletion: We will NOT delete any comments or articles. While mistakes may happen, particularly with our spam filter, we will not intentionally delete any comments or articles. If the need arises, we may add clear “UPDATE” tags and section to articles or we may edit them to fix formatting/grammar issues. Additionally, we retain the right to redact profanity or blatant blasphemy from comments.
4) Accountability: We will hold each other to the standards we would expect from those we disagree with. While this may be conducted through private email, if an offense is egregious, we may also communicate within the comments of our posts.
In Tone and Character
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. â€“ Proverbs 15:1
The wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. â€“ James 3:17
Due to the limitations of communication via the internet it is easy for misunderstanding to occur, for disagreements to escalate, for sarcasm and condescension to be employed, for argument on issues to become personal. We write things to others that we would never say in person.
Therefore while we defend those who are being attacked falsely, we will strive to take the high-road in dialogue at all time and to this end Posters and Commenters on this site are expected to:*
refrain from using terms of condescension
respond to arrogance and anger with a gentle answer
not escalate the level of rhetoric or anger
defend your argument, not yourself remember that in pursuing the purity of the wisdom that comes from above â€“ do so in a peaceable manner.

Many on CRN.info choose to use ad-hominem attacks and call it satire, and practice towards Christians the very thing they claim to be defending against. They also happen to be (many of them) emergent, therefore they, like other post moderns, can justify about any action, because really there are no hard and fast rules that cannot be deconstructed. They justify attacking solid, Biblical Christians because, in their judgement, their discernment about such, as they call them 'non-essential issues' like the practice of homosexuality (as an example) are judgmental and not supported by scripture (which they also deconstruct.
We call those who say one thing and do another (simply go to their site) hypocrites.

Lastly, our old pal Rick Warren is now starting the 40 days of love with a lunch meeting with the GLBTA, where those he is meeting with are trying to convince the major Christian denominations that 'alternative lifestyles' are appropriate, and not spoken against in scripture! More on this later.
***UPDATE***

Rick Warren claims that he had nothing to do with this meeting! People from his church did host this group this was falsely reported by Newsweek magazine. Whether or not he approved of the meeting is still being found out; to be sure Warren has a pattern of meeting with just about anyone, just like he will allow just about anyone (see Rupert Murdoch) say that they are a member of his church and he is their pastor.

If we do find this out, I will retract this statement with a sincere apology.

What a great Song and dance... FOR CHURCH??????????

2008-05-06T20:02:00.003-05:00

Here are the Lyrics:

Summer lovin', had me a blast

Summer lovin', happened so fast
Met a girl crazy for me
Met a boy cute as can be
Summer days drifting away
To, uh oh, those summer nights

Well-a, well-a, well-a, uh!

(Tell me more, tell me more)
(Did you get very far?) We all know what this means....how far sexually...This is great talk in a church service.
(Tell me more, tell me more)
(Like does he have a car?)

She swam by me, she got a cramp
He ran by me, got my suit damp I wonder what this really means.
Saved her life, she nearly drowned
He showed off splashing around
Summer sun, something's begun
But, uh oh, those summer nights

Well-a, well-a, well-a, uh!

(Tell me more, tell me more)
(Was it love at first sight?)
(Tell me more, tell me more)
(Did she put up a fight?)

Took her bowling in the arcade
We went strolling, drank lemonade
We made out under the dock Making out is a little more than innocent kissing-
We stayed out till ten o'clock really it is stopping just short of intercourse.
Summer fling don't mean a thing so we can do this sans commitment?
But, uh oh, those summer nights

(Tell me more, tell me more)
(But you don't gotta brag)
(Tell me more, tell me more)
('Cause he sounds like a drag)

He got friendly holding my hand
Well, she got friendly down in the sand hmmmm... what does this mean???
He was sweet, just turned eighteen
Well, she was good, you know what I mean hmmmm what does this mean??
Summer heat, boy and girl meet yeah. I thought so.
But, uh oh, those summer nights

(Tell me more, tell me more)
(How much dough did he spend?)
(Tell me more, tell me more)
(Could she get me a friend?)

It turned colder; that's where it ends
So I told her we'd still be friends
Then we made our true love vow
Wonder what she's doin' now

Summer dreams ripped at the seams
But, oh, those summer nights

The Bible is quite clear. This type of stuff is going to happen in the last days, where people go to churches that tickle their ears. Already, they tickle our libido with sex talks, not they gyrate their hips, thrust their pelvis, and sing perverted lyrics right in a Sunday morning service. I am very curious, what was the sermon that was being illustrated by this dance? Did the Pastor Spend as much time on his message as was spent in rehearsal for this number?

I would also like to know if there was ANYONE in this church that had the discernment to WALK OUT and never come back. The Bible says to not allow any unwholesome Word come out of our mouth. Yet this song glorifies premarital sex, and what Jesus called adultery in Matthew 5.

The purpose of the church is to build and equip believers so they can go out and to be the Church in the world, winning the world for Christ. The purpose of the worship service is NOT to entertain, rather, to WORSHIP and glorify God with our worship. Did this glorify God? I would say that God was disgusted with this display in His house. I pray that this performance was immediately followed by an offended and true Christian flipping over all the props and taking off his belt, whipping the actors and shouting "You'll not make my Father's house a house of harlots!"

One can dream.

Doug Pagitt @ Seeds of Compassion

2008-04-30T08:35:00.002-05:00

An emergent friend of mine confronted me (and other 'ODM's') about criticizing Rob Bell for not mentioning Jesus at the Seeds of Compassion, but we did not give props for what Doug Pagitt said. Okay we have to admit it….Doug Pagitt did proclaim the name of Jesus at the Seeds of Compassion Event. He quoted a Bible verse with out referencing it.

“I come from a Jesus Tradition, where Jesus said "I don’t call you servant, but I call you friend" ’

While Doug, in fairness, did name the name of Jesus Christ, it was in the context again of doing what Jesus did. He claims that the holistic missional community in Minneapolis is all about doing things that build community and friendships. Again, they attempt to live in the Jesus tradition, but the power of conversion is lacking. I would like to see them (as well as the other Christians on this panel) speak about the only way that living in the Jesus way is possible; when we repent and trust the Savior, and we are born again, given a new heart, and are filled by the Holy Spirit which enables us to live like Christ. As it is described, it is a form of godliness without the power. It is salvation by works, which Paul said in Galatians is to blot out the work of Christ, and it is a different Gospel.

How do we implement compassion? The panel seems to agree that we implement compassion through good works, the programs they create, and for Pagitt it is through the friendship systems that are implemented that puts people on a level playing field. I will argue again that the only way to sow seeds of compassion is to have a change of heart that is performed by Jesus Christ. This response was completely lacking from those who claim Christianity as their faith, and that greatly disturbs me.

The next question: The word Compassion is central to the Buddhist tradition. How does your community connect compassion? How is compassion central to your spiritual tradition? Doug comes back and says we are to be ‘Jesusy’ in the world. On Good Friday, Jesus said Father forgive them for they do not what they are doing. It involves empathy, not sympathy. We need to see problems from another person’s perspective. Doug tries to shine a light on what people are doing, point to people that are doing compassion. Again, the answer is completely lacking in that it does not point to Christ, rather, it points to people and glorifies their works.

Jesus’ compassion moved Him to point people to the kingdom of heaven. Yes, he fed them and he healed them, but always in the context of pointing them to himself and to God. He always spoke about repentance, a change of heart that created compassion for others so that they could come to a knowledge of the truth. If any of these Christians on this panel had the compassion of Jesus, they would pull the lost from the fires by warning them about their lost condition, and their need of a Savior that will sow seeds of compassion for the lost in your heart.

So, as promised I have reviewed the tape, and yes Doug did mention Jesus in the Seeds of Compassion event. I was wrong, he did mention Jesus; but I am still disappointed. He mentioned all about how he lives like Jesus, and how his community tries to live like Jesus, but nothing about how the human heart is wretched at its core, and needs conversion so that they can be like Jesus in this world.

I know the emergents will all say that it was not appropriate to speak like that. Let me suggest that the question opens up to an answer like this: "The only way that we can have compassion, and that we can show compassion, is to have the heart of Jesus which is produced in us when we are born again through repentance towards God, and faith in Christ alone. As a result, we see the world differently, and have a God-given compassion that motivates us to act as ambassadors for Christ. This is the greatest compassion we can show; introducing people to eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So, I am sorry because I said Doug would not mention Jesus. He did. But it is a Jesus that is stripped of the power to change hearts, reduced only to one who we should emulate in our works. Doug missed the point, even though he mentioned Jesus.

A Bridge over Emerging Waters

2008-04-07T15:59:00.004-05:00

I would like to take some time to draw a bridge, which will start at the door of Solomon's Porch (a wholistic missional community) whose Pastor, Doug Pagitt, loves the idea of a mishmash of world religions making a brew of belief, in which people from every religion will wind up reconciled and restored by God. At his church, you will see sunday morning worship only as a yoga session, and the Sunday evening service looks more like a coffee shop with everyone contributing, even to the sermon content and topic. In that 'community' when he is not traveling, you will find Tony Jones, a leader of the leaderless web known as Emergent Village. These two guys edited a book which Samir Samonovic wrote that you could find Jesus in the 'other'~ that is emergent-speak for other religions. In other words, you do not need to be a follower of Christ to know and to follow Christ. You do not even need to know his name.

I wish to continue building this bridge, because this bridge, because Selmanovic is backed by the leaderless Emergent Village, and its elder statesman Brian McLaren. Selmanovic has opened a little place called 'Faith House' whose mission is to

OUR MISSION: We want to start a new kind of community in which we can discover The Other (individuals or groups other than those we belong to), deepen our personal and corporate journeys, and together participate in repairing the world. In this endeavor we will honor and learn from teachings, practices, and suffering of people from religions, philosophies, and worldviews, different from our own. Instead of isolating ourselves into like-minded groups or melting together into a single-minded organization, we will learn to live together with our differences and in a way that contributes to the wellbeing, peace, joy, and justice in the world. In this endeavor we will always be a courageous, hospitable and learning community.

Translation: We are going to have a holistic missional community which includes uncommitted Muslims, Jews, and Christians, where none of us has the answer regarding faith, we just take what we want from each others faith and leave the rest. We are going to live at peace with men, caring not about peace with God.

All together now, our friend Doug Pagitt and his friend Rob Bell, are going to get together with guys like Dave Matthews (who is very emergent in that he commits to no religious faith) and the Dalai Lama (who is called his holiness by those who believe that a man can be holy) for the Seeds of Compassion and take part in an 'interspiritual dialogue' with people who believe that they can attain holiness and wholeness outside of Jesus Christ. Whoops-I guess I'm not surprised. That is exactly what they preach! I guess I have wasted my time.

Check out this video anyway. I think this is what Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt, Brian McLaren, Samir Salmanovic, and Oprah and other Emergents are trying to become.

Why Emergent 'Christians' like Obama for President

2008-03-29T09:20:00.003-05:00

I have often wondered, and have questioned my emergent and other friends who claim to follow Christ, how they can vote for Obama, who is radically opposed to life in that he is for embryonic stem cell research (where you kill a baby to harvest stem cells), and is for third tri-mester abortions ( the murder of a viable fetus for any reason, including birth control!)

I think that I have discovered the reason...They worship the same god of their own creation! This god sacrificed his one and only son so that people could follow their own way of righteousness and gain heaven! They follow the same marginalized god that will allow those who follow other doctrines like Islam, Hinduism, and even no religion if they are moral 'good people' god will be impressed with their works and allow them to enter heaven!

In a recent speech, Obama suggests the following:

"While answering a question about his Christian faith, Obama said he believes that Jesus Christ died for his sins and through God’s grace and mercy he could have “everlasting life,” according to the Los Angeles Times.

But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.

As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”

"[S]he was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said, according to the Times. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."

Folks, being kind and decent does not get you into heaven. Being generous does not get you into heaven. These are fruits that Christians should exibit, but we do not enter heaven through our own goodness. Rather, God says that we enter into heaven only through a foreign righteousness that he gives us through faith in Christ alone. You cannot get that righteousness from God unless you believe what He said and who He sent.

Obama's most famous supporter, Oprah, being raised a Baptist believes the same thing Obama does, and she promotes Williamson and Tolle as authors who can show different paths to heaven. Reading Tony Jones' book "The New Christians" makes me understand why he is a rabid Obama supporter; for he believes in the same restoration theology that his Pastor Doug Pagitt does~that is that all people on the day of judgement will be renewed and restored by God regardless of their faith on earth. I have no doubt that even though Shane Claibourne would want Jesus for president, he would settle for Obama.

Birds of a feather...

What do these authors have in Common?

2008-03-17T08:13:00.002-05:00

David (inspired author of many of the Psalms)
Hafiz (Persian/muslim mystic and Poet)
St Francis of Assisi (Roman Catholic Saint, founder of the Franciscans)
Meister Eckhart (German mystic philosopher)
Thomas Aquinus (Catholic saint and theologian)
Kabir (Indian Guru/muslim poet)
St. Catherine Siena (Catholic saint, mystically married to Jesus)
Rumi (Islamic jurist and theologian)
Rabia (Sufi muslim saint)
Tukurama (mystic prophet)
St. John of the Cross (Catholic saint, theologian, and poet)
Antonio Machado (literary giant in Spain)

Tell me what all of the authors have in common, and you will win manifest recognition due your talent and insight.

The Church of the Week

2008-03-14T09:15:00.002-05:00

This is the Church of the Week. Shouldn't we all strive to be all things to all people like this church? Forget about preaching the gospel, which crosses cultures and time and speaks to us today, no, we need to make everyone comfortable so they will come to church and stay there. Don't you agree?

Thanks to Steve and Kathy!

Deconstructing "The New Christians" 1

2008-03-07T13:25:00.002-06:00

Check out this new blog which is doing a book review of "The New Christians" by Tony Jones. My first article is featured there, where I believe that the forest is missed for the trees!

Tony Jones joining smurfs, Inviting Gargamel into conversation

2008-03-06T21:48:00.004-06:00

Emergent Villiage's Tony Jones has changed his name and his address, now he is Tony Smurf, and is taking over the Smurf Conversation. You can read all about it here

In a fairly bold move, Tony is inviting Gargamel into the conversation.

Gargamel, who has been a sworn enemy of the Smurfs and their semi-monastic

ways of living, has commented that he hopes to infiltrate and convert them to

his eastern mysticism. "With Tony at the helm, I have high hopes of really

being able to influence the Smurfs with my sorcerors ways" says Gargamel. "I

will get those Smurfs, heh heh heh!"

More later on this fast breaking story.

Dear Tony Jones,

2008-03-05T16:26:00.004-06:00

Dear Tony Jones,

Please watch this video and come to a knowledge of the truth that is in Christ, so you do not have those agnostic moments that you speak about. You can know the truth, you can know the Gospel! You do not have to wade in the mire and the murk of uncertainty- you can know! (and still be intellectually honest!)

This contains so much more hope than the sarcastic testimony of your summer camp experience, This can give depth to your understanding of what 'we' believe. It is so much more than a whooshing and an emotion, and it can be more than wondering if it is all a 'crock'...

Please, Tony...today is the day of salvation. Today is the day when you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt. Today you can be born again, only trust in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation. You can do this, and then your questions will be answered, you will be anchored in the Rock, and your conversations can go on, but they will begin and end in the Truth found only in Jesus.

I am proud of my wife!

2008-03-05T08:28:00.003-06:00

Wendy (my bride of 20 years) is not much one for debate, but the interview with Tony got her fired up. She took her concerns to Tony privately, a request which he rebuffed. I warned him that she is Scottish and can get fired up like Julie McMahon Jones, but he didn't hear me apparently.

My question is this; isn't it a bit hypocritical to sing the praises of women in ministry ( a good thing) rebuking me and my denomination for our 'human rights violation' of not allowing women to preach or be elders ( a clear teaching in scripture), and yet casting aside Wendy's polite desire to engage in a conversation with him?

Tony: But does that not seem to you actually um, um...youre gonna...this is gonna sound “Mr Liberal”...isn't that a human rights issue? I mean...listen, the Bible says women should wear head coverings in church, they shouldn't wear gold, they shouldn't have their hair braided...dadadadada...ok? AND they shouldn't teach over a man. Same...2nd Timothy, it's right there. Ok? It's all together.
John: Right.
Tony: For some reason, some denominations like the one you're a part of, they'll take the part about not letting a woman teach and dismiss all the others. And it seems to me, if you're gonna take it, you gotta take it hook line and sinker; otherwise it's just a bunch of men keeping women out of power while dismissing all the other stuff about head coverings and not wearing gold and...(apparently allowing her to confront him also)
John: (indistinct) Scramble your eggs about the prophetesses and those who...and the gifts not being sexually...the gifts not being sexually based.
Tony: So, but doesn't it seem to you like that you've really... I mean you're married, you have a wife and a daughter; doesn't it seem to you an issue of basic rights that you're in a church that will never let your daughter be a pastor?

Methinks he is afraid of strong women....

Wendy did an excellent job, in my opinion. I did not put her up to any of this! This was sent privately to him, and she does not know I am posting it ( I will be punished if she ever looks at my blog again)

Anyhow, here is her letter. I am so proud of her!

On 2/28/08, Wendy Chisham wrote:
Tony,
I wanted to respond to the interview with my husband, John Chisham, but i
don't really want to put it on an email, it's so impersonal. do you have a
PO box or an address i cold send you a hand written letter?

Wendy Chisham
--
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Jones"
To: "Wendy Chisham"
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: interview with my husband

That's alright, Wendy. No need to respond.

Peace,

Tony
Tony Jones
Author of THE NEW CHRISTIANS: Dispatches from the Emergent Frontier
(Available Now)
www.tonyj.net
National Coordinator, Emergent Village
http://www.emergentvillage.org
P.O. Box 390104
Minneapolis, MN 55439-0104

Tony,

Well, i'm going to anyway. For you to tell me not to respond, was a put down. And now i'm a little hot undret he collar, but i'll take a deep breath (sigh). i have three points.

1. I figured this would happen if you interviewd John. It seemed like you got him off track on a couple of politically correct subjects: women in the pulpit, amd whether or not he drinks or not. I feel that this is a worn out subject. Women and men in the Allince have been serving side-by-side for years. i am a strong woman with a definite opinion, my daughter is fierce, 17 and very independent. Women in the alliance do not feel threatened by men in the pulpit, simply because there is so much work to be done. i really feel that people like you are demeaning the other gifts, as if they are less than the pastoral. I know a few women who are very pastoral and have been used in the alliance that way, just because they don't have the title, doesn't make them any less. WHO CARES, honestly, unless you are really seeking that title. Alliance women raise all the funds for the National Project every year. They are busniess minded and have to be leaders to raise it, obviously some are not as good as others. But the same goes for men in the pulpit. A good pastor is going to have people on the board, including women who compliment him where he is weak.

i have been , in the last 20 years of marriage, in two places. i have been a stay-at-home mom, the first ten years. now i am a full time teacher. i try to balance it, and "have it all" but you can't. I lose some of the family time, and making meals, just the peace of the household, when i used to stay home. I think those are important things that God intended. Why should they be demeaned? i've been a teacher and i see the kids that have both parents working so much that they don't have time for thier kids. they are suffering.

2. Okay enough of the protest. the other issue is the drinking. I'll explain. Alliance does not thinkit is wrong to Drink alcohol, they just prefer that their pastors don't becuase sometimes it is called into question but someone that has a problem with drinking. So in order not to offend, it's just better not to do it. Since John could take it or lewave it, he decides to leave it for that reason. That's it, that's all.

3. The biggest quesion that i have for you is why are you deconstructing scripture, and the Word as God intended it, so it can fit your needs. I feel that the more that man deconstructs God, the weaker God becomes. God is then reduced to a small manipulative that fits into man's world, rather than man adjusting his life to honor God. Do you see what i am saying? it seems that when we can actually creat a god to fit our needs, we have reduced Him. Now WE are in charge. And i have a problem with that, Toni. How can you justify that?

God does not promise us wealth and prosperity, and lots of warm and fuzzy feelings, in fact when we ask the Holy spirit in to our lives, you better believe it is going to harder at times, because you are going to face adversity. But You will have to peace of God which passes all understanding. Because you are placing all of your trust in HIm and trusting that He knows what is best, and He may be allowing you to go through things, to teach you or others, more about Him, including suffering.

You are good at teeling people what they want to hear, but that is not the truth , Toni. If you really want to be brave, be different. You're just going along with the crowd. And i have to say that you were very sarcastic during the interview, which, offended me. My husband was willing to go in there and he honestly wanted to get to some issues and have a good discussion. You need to give equal time in you interviews, and not cut people off, you can get in your digs.

sincerely,
Wendy Chisham

An open Response to Carlos Shelton AKA Iggy

2008-03-03T10:03:00.003-06:00

John,

I just listened to Tony’s interview with you on your blog, The Down Grade and it was very revealing.

First off I want to say you seem a very nice guy and very personable… this does not always translate on the blogosphere or in the forums we both tend to travel. I appreciate that you are not as much on the attack as I had thought you were… and please as you read this realize I have a friendly smile and do so in a way that I hope is as a friend and brother in Christ and not an enemy. This is not an attack on you at all... just some observations.

I hope that you are a brother in Christ, Carlos. I must say that in response to an earlier comment at my blog, you believed that my conversion might be lacking. I wish to clarify and say again that I have realized my sin, repented of it by confessing and forsaking it, and turned to faith in Christ. This action was not of myself, because I have been saved by grace through faith-and this is not of myself, it is a gift of God, not of works. The grace and the faith- even the ability to repent- came from Christ. Outside of the Father's drawing, I can do nothing good.

Man there are some major errors in your theology! I mean that in the nicest way…

Let me explain one area for starters…

God is sovereign… I hope we agree. Yes, we agree, but your definition is lacking in depth.

Yet you state that there are some things God “cannot do” like lie. The Scripture states that, Iggy:Hebrews 6:18: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us...

Titus 1:2: ...In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began...

You have created a major contradiction. For if God is sovereign, then nothing is impossible. If God cannot do something and is “bound” to it, then God is subject to the thing He is “Bound” to… God is not longer sovereign… the thing He is bound to becomes sovereign over God.

Now, it is not that God “cannot do” this or that, but “will not” do something as it is against His nature to do that thing. So you are limiting your Sovereign God and making him less than sovereign. I will agree that cannot was a poor choice of words. He will not, because it is not in his nature to sin would be much more accurate. However, this holds true in his judgement according to his law. God is a righteous judge, he will not allow those who have broken His law into heaven with him. He has set the standard of His moral law, he has promised that his wrath will abide on those who have broken His law. In a human sense, he is bound by his justice
because God will not lie, or break his promises. Again, words lack power to describe God perfectly. He can be both sovereign and choose to put limitations on Himself. He is all powerful, but he can choose to limit his power. He is all just, yet he is all merciful. How is that possible? Because He is God. He can choose to do what he wants, but within his revealed character, he cannot and will not do certain things. Yet he is still sovereign.

If God is not sovereign then He cannot be just, but must bow to the justice of the thing He is bound to. God will not do some things as it is against His Character. He does things because of His Name as it is because of His character to do or to not to do. If you take away God’s will and bind Him in anyway, I do not bind Him, he binds Himself. He can do that, He is God. then He cannot be sovereign. If He cannot choose to forbear, or be patient to not judge immediately? I would argue this self-sufficient choice proves he is sovereign. Boy, talk about putting God in a box?! God may limit Himself as He did in the incarnation as Jesus emptied Himself (Philippians 2:6-7) and became totally dependant on the Father by the Holy Spirit. (John 5:19)

Get that so far? I do, Carlos. Do you?

God in Truth….

God is Truth and Jesus is the Truth Incarnate. To know Truth we need to know Jesus. Amen We do not approach God from our view of Truth but from His. Jesus states in John 5: 39-40. “You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”

Without the Person Who is Truth Incarnate and without first having the Life that is in the Son you cannot have Truth. We may have a perception of Truth but it will only be relative to our own limited knowledge. So to say that we are to seek God in Truth is backwards… God reveals His Truth to us and we gain understanding of Truth by that revelation by what is called the “renewing of the mind”. We cannot seek God in truth, only he can draw us into truth. We must worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth, which means, only if we are new creatures in Christ can we worship the father rightly. He does reveal this truth to us, and we cannot know Jesus except if we know the truth (Jesus) which will set us free. This is an immediate and progressive action. The first action is justification, where man is drawn by God to Christ, and man responds by faith given him by God. When we place this faith in Christ, we become new creatures in Christ.

Unfortunately, many people call themselves Christians will face the judgement in Matthew 7 when Jesus says to them 'I never knew you.' They claim they knew Jesus, but in this ultimate judgement, they did not know Jesus Christ in truth. They might have known the Jesus that is all love and all forgiveness, and this Jesus may have motivated them to good works in his name but they never knew Him, because they never knew the truth. They were never converted, or they were false converts. I am afraid that this describes probably 70% of the 22 billion believers Tony claims. Why? because by their fruit we shall know them. A fruit tree does not produce thorns.

(Romans 12:2) This is called regeneration and is the process in which we are transformed on this side of the New Creation Huh? Do you mean heaven? until we receive our New Bodies in the fulfillment of the New Creation. We are already new creatures in Christ, we have already been baptized into his death and resurrection (Romans 6) And we are being mad into the image of Christ as we walk this earth, and when we do go to heaven, we shall be like Him.

That is why to place regeneration ahead of salvation is a bit dangerous as it implies one has already arrived. As we are “Born of Heaven” or “Born from above” which is the literal translation of being “born again” we begin the process of regeneration that comes to its fulfillment when we are in the New Creation. (Titus 3:5) You might note in Titus 3:5 that it is “the washing” which is not the same as “having been washed” it is a process that begins and continues until we are “renewed” by the Holy Ghost at the Resurrection, as stated in verse 7 if you stay in context.

This is a false interpretation. Salvation is an immediate spiritual reality; we are justified (declared not guilty, and proclaimed righteous) by Grace (Romans 3:24, 26). The washing that you describe is part of sanctification, which is part of salvation. Our word salvation is like our word love; it is totally inadequate to describe what has happened and will happen. We have been saved (justification) we are being saved (sanctification) will will be saved (glorification)

Salvation is both a settled issue as well as a progressive issue that will not be complete until we have been made like Him. The Titus passage does this quite well, the washing of regeneration is a once and continual action, similar to you, Carlos. You took a shower yesterday (I don't know if Montanans take daily showers) are you still clean today? Only partially. Christ's washing is effective for eternity, but while we are still in this dead flesh, daily washing is still required, until that day when no flesh shall remain. The washing of regeneration is like the baptism of the Spirt in Romans 6; we have been regenerated (born again) the renewal is that continued washing, scrubbing us down to look more like Jesus, so that we can be made heirs.

So we may agree that one need be born of heaven, yet I think that you miss the nuance of what is actually going on by the system of theology you use. Not at all, I think many miss the nuance of salvation being both a settled and progressive event, with all the progress being made as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit.

It is not as you stated. “to believe rightly”… in fact, you miss the subtle nuance of the passage in which it is that if one believes they are not condemned and in that if they do not believe they are condemned already. It is not in the “belief” but the person that one is saved. Or as Jesus stated, “so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” (John 3 14-15) So what you have done and is done most often unintentionally is switch the focus from belief in Him to being saved by one’s “Belief” and even more narrow, a “rightly believed, belief” … and this is what Plato taught and was known as Gnosticism… to believe in our own beliefs or abstract thoughts or the immaterial … as if it was a higher reality than the material. This is dangerous as it is subtly moving salvation being based on “the Person of Jesus Christ come in the flesh” to “immaterial abstract beliefs” and as John teaches in 1 John 4: 2. “This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3. but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.” So if I was not as nice as I was I would point out that you have allowed the Spirit of anti Christ replace the Person of Jesus if you assert that it is our belief that saves us… of course I do not think you believe that, but as I listened to you talk to Tony Jones… that is exactly what you stated and I heard.

I do not believe that belief saves us, Clearly that is not the case. Salvation starts with and ends with God's sovereign choice. You are completely taking out of context my words. I have stated above that the scripture clearly states we must know Jesus in truth. The word belief is again mistranslated or a weak version of the Greek word. Belief in the context of John 3:16 is more than an intellectual knowledge, it is trust and commitment to Christ as Lord and Savior, which produces a new nature, a change of heart, and obedience to the Lord. We cannot do this ourselves- It is the gift of God. He produces the belief, he allows us the proper response. We are indeed born from above, it is God's action, that is appropriated by us through faith which I have stated repeatedly comes from God.

Now, “What makes a Christian” is not as important as how one is brought to and finds salvation. I disagree, that is the absolute starting point for all these things. What makes a Christian is repentance and faith in Christ alone, that is being born from above. Often what makes a “Christian” is reduced to being religious. I hate religion, religion is simply man's lame attempt at finding ways to please God in himself. Jesus stated that we are to believe and do. Not just believe. But we must believe to be a Christian. So much focus is on just believing and not doing. In fact much of the doing is man made busy work… and misses the “works of God” done in and through us. I agree, but we must be before our works can glorify God. If we have, by God's grace, believed and placed our faith in Christ, the spiritual result is good works. Otherwise, these works you describe are just religious acts.

Yet here you also stated that some confess things like "baptism saves us"... and yet, there are those like Chris Rosebrough who goes to the Lutheran church... and believes just this! Yet, you are more concerned that Tony thinks that most do not "think" this way, while you ignore Chris Rosebrough teaching others what you have just condemned... http://www.blogger.com/www.extremetheology.com

I know you will then say, that you are not responsible for Chris, yet then how are you responsible for Tony or me or anyone for that matter?I am not responsible for anyone but myself, but I am concerned for you and Tony, and, if Chris believes that, I am also concerned for Him. I know Lutherans who do not believe that Baptism saves, but believe that is is a covenant baptism, trusting that infants when baptized and raised in the faith will come into the faith at the age of accountability. This is similar to Anglican teaching. It does not always work that way.

I see an agenda a mile wide and in a huge steaming pile and the consistent refusal to face your "comrades in arms". In fact as you stated you are a Cal-Minian, which is fine with me, yet Ken Silva would state flat out you are a semi-pelagian and have a man loving man based faith… and as I listen to you I would actually agree! How do you know what Ken would say? You are judging a person wrongly! You cannot judge Ken's intentions, only his actions! You are dead wrong there buddy.

Now as I listen to Ingrid and Ken, Ingrid teaches a gospel of "works righteousness" as well as Ken Silva who teaches so many things that not only condemn emergents, but almost every single person who contributed to Christian History!

Works do not make us righteous, they do not justify us. But those who have been born again and have a new nature desire to do right things. These result in works. Indeed, we have been 'created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God has prepared in advance for us to do'

Again, you seem to be blind to all that... and focus on the gnat while the camel swallows you.

Twisted scripture. I want to live a right life before God primarily, but as part of my role as a Christian leader, I must contend for the faith in the face of false teachings.

You are in the minority and in that minority there is a huge contradiction. You have Lutherans and Calvinists saying that we must be like them, when historical Luther did not like Calvin though Calvin liked Luther... Zwingli agreed with all points with Luther except over the Lord's Supper and Luther refused to talk to Zwingli ever again after their meeting.
So, which tradition of man are we supposed to follow all in the name of being reformed?

Jesus.

Again, if someone on your "side" studied some history there might be a breakthrough... we might find common ground and actually seek real Unity in the faith. Unity can only be found in truth, and truth is a known commodity. We see it in the Word of God, and in the person of Jesus Christ. I am on the side of Jesus, and He is not on the side of a generous orthodoxy. He is the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE no man gets to the Father but by HIM.

Did you know according to Dr David Calhoun at Worldwide Theological Seminary, which is a reformed school that the teaching of Grace might have been lost if it was not for the Christian Mystics? That these men inspired Augustine, Aquinas, St Bernard, which inspired Luther, and Calvin and all the great reformers?

What we have is a huge lump of ignorance attacking others out of their ignorance...

Did you realize that the one who gave us St Anthony of the Desert also was instrumental in giving us the present canon of scripture as well as the Nicene Creed?

Again, this is how dangerous people like Ken Silva and Ingrid are...

Did you know that Ingrid pushed a form of Contemplative prayer on her own blog while attacking others for practicing it?

Your hatred is shining through here 1John 4:20 Examine yourself

I mean you guys always attack the Emerging church on thing and call us to be like you, yet we look at history and wonder which "you" are we to be? It seems that you can't even decide which one you should be... and you want us to be like you, and you claim all this certainty?

I just want the emergers to be Born Again through faith in Christ and make that the focus of their ministry. Despite What Brian, Doug, Rob, and Tony say, we will not all be winding up in heaven or the hereafter unless we, by God's grace, have placed our faith in Christ alone for our salvation. We do not get there through vain philosophies. We cannot get there from Hinduism, Buddhism, practicing yoga, or contemplative prayer. Jesus is the only way.

I stand here again calling you and your friends to repentance in the Name of Jesus... that you would seek Unity in the Faith in Christ and not around your man made indecisive doctrines.

I repent daily of my sins, and I cannot be in yoked together with those who do not follow the way of Christ exclusively. I can be friends with them, but I cannot be in covenant relationship with them.

The bottom line is that when I listened to you speak and noted that you are attending John MacArthur’s Masters Institute… working on a Masters degree… and you state that the emerging church or emergent are “hard to nail down” or “some squishy or untidy language being used” and I hear you contradict yourself all over and as I pointed out… I wonder what is being taught at that and other seminaries.

I am attending Masters Divinity School. Tony misspoke, I did not correct him. I wish I could afford Dr. MacArthurs school. I misspoke several times, because I did not know the nature of this interview. If I had at least a scope of the interview, I would have been better prepared.

Again, John this is not meant to be harsh or mean or whatever, but just what I have observed and heard from your camp and from you.

Now realize we have not even gotten into your view of the atonement and how you seem to deny the finished works of Christ on the Cross by stating that God is “bound” to punish those according to the Law. He is bound by himself to judge rightly, according to his perfect, holy standard. No In fact you contradict Jesus own words by saying that God is bound to “judge” mankind… John 5:22 flat out states the contrary to your assertion. “Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son” In context, we see Jesus as a man has 'set aside' willingly his Godhood (Ph 2:6-11) during his incarnation. God has granted him in his incarnation judgement, life giving power, etc. is what the bible teaches. In fact Jesus goes on to say that “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” But those who do not believe are condemned already-verse 19- in opposition to the teachings of McLaren, Pagitt, Jones, and Bell (you might recongnize John 3:17 there) to condemn means that Jesus would judge it, yet scripture also states, “-those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.” (John 5:29) but what you are missing is who and how people who do evil will be judged. “You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. (John 8:15-16) which leads us to how one will be judged, "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.” (John 12: 47-48)

First notice why one will be judged besides doing evil. It is because they rejected Jesus, they are not judge because God is bound by the Law… it is because they rejected Jesus. Who was the propitiation- the final and total payment- for the debt we owe because we sinned
Second, notice that it is by the Words that Jesus spoke… for as scripture states, “The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace.” (Romans 8:6). Jesus dealt with sin on the Cross and in with that we are only faced with the wages of Sin… which is death. What do dead men need most? Life! The Life is in the Son… Christ died “once for all” or as scripture states, “he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself”. Notice that last phrase, as it is very important in understanding the Cross… “to do away with sin” or as John the Baptist stated, “Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. You confuse the propitiation of sin with salvation, for as Roman 5:10 plainly states; “For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”

We are saved through His Life… yet you are still saying that God is bound by the Law that Jesus fulfilled for those who would believe and must punish mankind by that demands of the Law for those who choose not to believe . This is not the proper understanding of the Law at all. The Law was to reveal sin and show that wrath was stored up for us, yet instead we find God is longsuffering and kind and gave his only Son to die in our place so that we may have new life by the power of the Resurrection. People who reject Jesus reject their own salvation. It is that simple. People reject Jesus, and choose God's wrath instead of his mercy, by trying to works that please God, and by refusing to turn to Christ in faith.

There is much more John that I would love to talk about with you. I do hope this will lead you into a deeper understanding of what our great faith is about and that we share.

Be blessed,

iggy
Backatcha

John

Tony Jones Interview UPDATED

2008-02-27T22:34:00.005-06:00

Thanks to Apprising Ministries, and Terriegal over at Purposedrivel for this transcription...

Tony has forgotten that he gave me implicit permission to post this video. Out of respect for him, I have taken it down. Here is the transcript of the video. Though this does not do justice to the expression and the insight of the video, these are the words that were used in the interview, and words do mean things.....

Tony Jones asked me to Minneapolis to Solomons Porch to do an off the cuff interview (or conversation) about my issues with Emergent. The edited version will soon be on YouTube, but this is the unedited version from my own camera which I shot with Tony's permission. Please observe the conversation points:

My objection to Emergent
How important it is to know God in truth
How one can be born again or have a relationship with Christ
What makes a Christian
Women in Ministry being a human rights issue
Point blank to Tony 'Are you born again'

I want to say to things about this: First, Tony is an extremely likeable guy, and I would definitely love to hang out with him and have lots of conversations with him. The second thing is that I found out how, in my view, and I think in the scriptural view, he and the scripture are miles apart. I truly think he thinks that he is right in his views, and I don't think he purposely wants to harm anybody. But his teachings are truly dangerous and scary when you take them through the filter of God's Word.

I pray that Tony finds God in truth today, and can find what He is looking for so that he does not have those 'agnostic' days anymore.

Matt Wilcoxen responds to Tony Jones' Challenge excellent post!

Cottonwood School Bus Tragedy

2008-02-25T09:01:00.002-06:00

There is understandable anger that is being directed toward this young hispanic woman who apparently ran a stop sign, jumped over some railroad tracks, and hit the Lakeview school bus, murdering the four young students while, apparently being here illegally, under a false identity, and without a drivers license. I get that anger; I confess that I have felt it for the last several days. I struggled to pray for this young woman as I prayed for the families that lost kids, as well as those who have injuries that they have to deal with.

I was driving last night to an interview. I like to pray when I drive, and I was reflecting on my anger as I was praying, and the Holy Spirit brought to mind the story of David and Bathsheeba. For those unfamiliar with the story, David was the king of Israel, a man after God's own heart, coveted his neighbors wife, committed adultery, and murdered her husband to cover up his crime. God was watching all this, and sent Nathan, his prophet, to confront David. In his confrontation, Nathan told a story about a man who had everything, but stole his neighbors little lamb. David rose up as king in righteous indignation, and said that man must die! and Nathan said-You are that man. David was nailed to the wall, realizing that he had sinned against God.
That story nailed me to the wall, and I had to repent of my attitude.

How does this relate? In all of our righteous indignation against that woman, we declare judgement, as we should. But we also must remember that God sits in judgement of all of us. Every thought, word, and deed that we have and do is laid bare before God who is holy and righteous. He judges us according to his perfect moral law, found in the Ten Commandments. We all have broken every one of them in thought, word, or deed. For example, Jesus says in Matthew 5 that if you look with lust (sexual desire) you commit adultery (commandment 7) and if you hate, you commit murder (commandment 6). His perfect standard condemns all men to hell, even for lying (Revelation 21:8, commandment 9). In this community, there are angry voices, Like David, calling for justice for the children and their families. I want the same thing; however, I encourage you to turn the mirror of the Ten Commandments on yourself and see yourself in truth before God. When you do this, cry out for God's mercy like David did in Psalm 51.

I understand the anger, I do, but what God has done for us by placing all of his wrath for our sins on Jesus Christ, paying the penalty for those who, like David, will repent and trust in Jesus, I can understand Jesus' telling us that we must forgive seventy times seven. I pray that this woman's sorrow will be Godly sorrow that leads to repentance. I pray that she pays the earthly penalty in prison for the wrong that she has done. But I also pray that this community can forgive her and move on. After all, God has given us the example in this lenten/Easter season.

Rob Bell is Not a Christian?

2008-02-22T08:46:00.000-06:00

This is an excellent commentary about the new article in Relevant magazine concerning Rob Bell. Those of you who love Bell and his style and everything else need to examine what he teaches according to the scripture. This article does an excellent job doing that from the Relevant magazine interview.

Emergent Evangelism?

2008-02-20T07:55:00.000-06:00

I have been kind of an ER fan in the past years, and I watched this episode with fascination, along with the past episodes with this 'chaplain' who is of the emergent bent~she has found truth in many different traditions, and is able to go through the hospital and talk with people of all different backgrounds and make them feel comfortable about themselves. (By the way, this is what they are trying to get chaplains to be in many hospitals) This was fascinating because here, she runs into a man who is dying, struggling with guilt, and afraid of Hell. She has no idea how to comfort him~and she cannot answer his simple questions:

How can I hope for forgiveness?
I am afraid of what comes next?
Is atonement even possible?
What does God want from me?
How do I find forgiveness, I am running out of time!

All this 'chaplain' could give him was a bunch of questions and opinions; no certainty. This man, a prison guard who was on the crew that put people to death, had put one man wrongly to death, and, in facing his own death, needed to get rid of that guilt. This emergent chaplain had no idea what to tell him.

It is a great picture, whether the world knows it or not, they are all like this man, on a road of certain death. We are that chaplain, and we have the responsibility to answer mankind's questions everyday as we encounter them. How do we answer their questions? Do we have a comforting conversation with him, trying to get him to feel comfortable in his own truth? Or do we warn them about the certainty of judgement? Do we hold back the greatest news ever given about how God made atonement for our sins in His own Son?

I know, its a stretch, there are no perfect illustrations. But this guy was desperate for answers, and she could not give them. Can you?

Accentuate the Positive, Eliminate the Negative?

2008-02-19T21:16:00.000-06:00

This video questions the premise, do people really realize their position before God, do they really know that they are sinners? Seeker Sensitive churches often minimize sin and depravity, opting instead for positive preaching. "Everyone is well aware of their sin", or so they say. But in this CrossTV.com clip, even convicted felons proclaim their own righteousness.

In my experience, having personally shared the gospel with hundreds of people, they not only proclaim their righteousness, they claim that God is okay with their sin, and God is all forgiving, and will not judge them for their sin. I have met people that misquote 1 John 1:9 as some sort of 'get out of jail free' card. I have seen the result of this behavior in churches I have been a part of, where compromise of preaching the whole counsel of God has resulted in lukewarmness.

I personally have repented of being purpose driven or human centered in my ministry. I am now more concerned with being Christ-centered. My healthy fear of God, a reverential honor that seeks to please God and glorify Him is the driving force that overcomes the fear of men. I know that the Gospel is offensive, if it is presented in its totality. I pray God will revive his church so that we will not so fear man that we replace sin and repentance towards a holy God with God has a wonderful plan for your life, and God wants you to have your best life now. Without repentance from sin, and faith in Christ alone, there is no salvation. Both are acts that are started and completed by God, who is the only Seeker we should be sensitive towards.

I guess God doesn't love Living Word Christian Center?

2008-02-19T12:04:00.000-06:00

From WCCO:
Financial Woes Force Church To Sell Private Jet
BROOKLYN PARK, Minn. (AP) ― Dwindling donations to the Living Word Christian Center in Brooklyn Park have prompted its high-profile pastor, Mac Hammond, to put his private business jet on the market.

Church spokesman the Rev. Brian Sullivan says Living Word has also cut its hourlong Sunday morning television broadcast to 30 minutes to save money.

He says the church has fallen $40,000 to $70,000 short of its weekly budget in recent weeks. Sullivan says the church is adjusting its budget accordingly.

Sullivan says the church's problems could be a combination of the recession and the recent bad publicity about churches preaching the "Prosperity Gospel."

The prosperity churches are based on the idea that success in business or personal life is evidence of God's love.

Late last year, the U.S. Senate asked six churches to submit financial documents because of complaints about the lavish lifestyles of their ministers. Hammond was not among them.

Sullivan says the church is aggressively marketing the jet, and that the money raised from the sale would be reinvested in the ministry.

I'm sorry, but didn't Jesus say that we would be persecuted? Did Jesus have a place to lay his head, a place to call home? Didn't He call his disciples away from their nets to follow him? To leave their plow behind? Didn't he tell the rich young ruler to sell everything he possessed and to come follow Him?

Does picking up the cross and following Jesus Christ mean that we are supposed to be healthy, wealthy, and comfortable? Or are we supposed to count all things dung but the knowledge of our Savior Jesus Christ? Aren't we supposed count all things loss ? Where did this humanistic gospel of comfort come from, but from the pits of Hell?

I guess by their own theology, the evidence presented that they have to sell their plane and that they have to cut their air time that God must not love them. How God must hate those in Muslim nations that are being murdered for possessing a Bible, how He must despise those being dragged by the Hindu militants from their homes because they desire to pray! How God must really hate the Chinese Christians who must knit together pieces of Bibles in order to have the Word of God! How God must despise those being killed all over the world today because of their faith in Jesus Christ, those engaged in the civil war in Kenya who are killed for their faith in Jesus. In fact, God must hate 2/3 of the world who live in abject poverty.

What could that $40,000-$70,000 weekly shortfall do in the world? In Haiti, it could double the annual income for 400 people. It could build and stock a medical clinic where the Gospel could be spread in Indonesia. In Cambodia, it could buy 40-80 young girls out of the sex trade- and this is per week! That money could demonstrate to poor, homeless, and sick people all over the world the love of God. You could pay 3-4 church planters in America a starting annual salary every month so that the Gospel could be proclaimed here in America! Of course, none of these suggestions have to do with prosperity, just practical uses of wealth that could spread the good news all over the world.

Of course, it is more important to finance a coffee shop, heat and air conditioning, a real nice studio/sanctuary, great electronic equipment, marble floors and columns, and a publishing house. Is it really important to encourage Christian hedonism by having a rocking nightclub where First Avenue used to be? There are many things you could downsize and make a better Gospel impact on the world, but that would not be a demonstration of your kingdom to the world, it would be a demonstration of God's kingdom. After all, isn't that what we are supposed to promote?

White Space Christians

2008-02-14T19:37:00.000-06:00

The problem with post-modern evangelicalism, as seen in the Seeker-sensitive and the emergent churches:

From Paul Edwards: "The argument for this reprioritizing is a convincing one, suggesting the new priorities for evangelicals ought to be determined by asking, “How would Jesus respond to (fill in your favorite social cause here)?” The implied answer is that Jesus would be more concerned about the treatment of the poor (especially illegal immigrants) and, at best, neutral on the questions of abortion and homosexual marriage because Jesus never spoke against abortion or homosexual marriage.

These new voices of evangelicalism wear the label “red letter Christians,” but they are in reality “white space Christians,” determining Jesus’ view of abortion and homosexual marriage by focusing on what he didn’t say rather than on what he did say. In Matthew 5 Jesus upholds the standard of the Mosaic Law, which is clear in its call for punishing anyone responsible for killing a child in the womb (Exodus 21:22-25). When Jesus wanted to illustrate true greatness, he set a child in the midst of the disciples and said, “Of such is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 19:14). In Matthew 19 Jesus clearly affirmed that marriage is between one man and one woman by validating the story of Adam and Eve, holding it up as the standard for marriage. As for the question of how Jesus would respond to illegal immigrants, I’m pretty sure he would tell them to obey the law (cf. Matthew 22:21).

The new voices of evangelicalism sound eerily similar to the old voices of the social gospel movement who moved their churches away from the priority of the gospel in the early 20th Century, focusing instead on positive thinking and welfare as a solution to social ills. The result was empty pews and even emptier hearts. I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, then I’ll get down on my knees and pray we don’t get fooled again (with apologies to Pete Townshend)."

EYOUCH! That was a great point. I would go one step further that they even want to go as far to take Jesus' clear teaching on things like heaven, hell, repentance, sin, and re-write it to their own sensibilities and politics. If it is too complicated for a child to understand and receive, it ain't the Gospel....

The real Mars Hill

2008-02-14T09:16:00.000-06:00

Let us take a Bible history trip and discover that there is really nothing new under the sun.... Acts 17

Paul in Athens

16 Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.

Paul was disturbed-provoked- by the culture that all around him in Athens. Why was he provoked? The city was full of idols. They did not know or love the one true God. So that motivated Paul to go into the synagogue and reason with them. I wonder what that looked like; I believe Paul went in and warned and encouraged them to examine Jesus Christ as Messiah. He also went into the marketplace and - of all things- open air preached and witnessed to people about Jesus Christ!

18 Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, "What does this babbler wish to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities"—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection.

We must look now at the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. They are the lynch pin here-These philosophers loved to sit in the public and philosophize- that is they loved to hang around and talk about new things. For the Epicureans, this gaining of knowledge along with friendship and other simple pleasures was the highlight of life. They believed in materialism, dismissing the possibility of a true spiritual realm. Gods, and souls, like man, were made up of atoms. The gods had no concern or input into the lives of men, men were self-determined, and thus had freedom to choose how to live. These would be the folks that would teach a heaven on earth, and that we could experience heaven on earth if we could figure out how to live simply, by your own free will. They are the emergents of the past, elevating human philosophy and conversation above the ultimate truth found in God.

"The core doctrine of Stoicism concerns cosmic Determinism and human freedom, and the belief that virtue is to maintain a Will that is in accord with nature. In the life of the individual man, virtue is the sole good; such things as health, happiness, possessions, are of no account. Since virtue resides in the will, everything really good or bad in a man's life depends only upon himself. He may become poor, but what of it? He can still be virtuous. A tyrant may put him in prison, but he can still persevere in living in harmony with Nature. He may be sentenced to death, but he can die nobly, like Socrates. Therefore every man has perfect freedom, provided he emancipates himself from mundane desires." (From Wikipedia)These are the folks of today who elevate actions that we do (virtues) as the ultimate measure. Again, we can create heaven on earth if we do good, act virtuously and align ourselves with nature. These are the emergents of the past, extolling human virtue and determinism above a righteousness found only in Christ Jesus.

19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean." 21 Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.

This was the whole life of these philosophers. They believed that gaining knowledge about things was the height of their lives, therefore they spent their time hanging around, listening for new things to talk about. Then, they would sit around and deconstruct and discuss what they had heard! It sounds awful familiar. I experience this in my discussions with emergents. They love to tear down orthodoxy, even deconstructing scripture to fit their own philosophy of life. They spent their time in a conversation trying to discover a communal truth. And, since truth cannot be known, there is no end to their conversation. There are even emergent holistic christian communities that sit around and discuss what their sermon message ought to look like, having a conversation about it with anybody who wants to take part.

Paul Addresses the Areopagus (Mars Hill)

22 So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

Paul acknowledges that these men are very religious; after all, there are idols all over the city. Modern-day epicureans and stoics are also very religious, believing that there is truth in every religion and that we ought to try to find common ground with them. Some even have written that we can experience Jesus in all of these faith backgrounds. They also believe that we can find God in religious experiences and feelings, which is why they use candles and incense and labrinyths and icons.

Another thing that these modern day Epicureans and Stoics claim is that we cannot know God. In one sense, that is true. There are things about God that are unknowable to mankind. We will never, until we pass from this reality into eternity, know all there is to know about God. However, God has written in his Word through inspired men all that we need to know and can know about Him.

24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Paul was speaking directly to the Epicureans here; for they believed in a God that was removed and made up of basically the same matter as human beings. They did not believe in the creative process of God; nor did they believe in a God that was beyond matter (God is spirit). They also did not believe in a God that was involved in the everyday life of mankind on earth. The stoics believed that the universe and everything in it was god, and Paul spoke directly to them in saying that the universe and everything in it was created by God and that the workings of man was not determined by fate (as they believed) but determined by God.

27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28 for

"'In him we live and move and have our being';

as even some of your own poets have said,

"'For we are indeed his offspring.'

29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.

The beliefs of these philosophers- the epicureans with their materialism and knowledge as the and the stoics with their reason- were challenged by Paul. We are not offspring of material only, we have the breath of God, we came forth as a result of his creative process. The end is not reason, as some suppose, or determinism (fate), but it is in Him that we live and move and have our being. In that, we cannot limit God to a statue or a concept that we form of him. We cannot create heaven on earth, for God is the one who will create a new heaven and a new earth. For God's kingdom will not come through the thought, imaginations, or art of man.

Listen to what God is saying to the people listening at the REAL Mars Hill:

30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."

God is saying to you modern Stoics and Epicureans- you emergent thinkers- that your decided ignorance and deconstruction of His clear Word are over. He commands all people all over everywhere to REPENT. Sorry Doug and Rob- he has fixed a DAY on which HE WILL JUDGE the world in righteousness- by his righteous standard- which is perfection- which can only be found in Christ, not in endless philosophy, discussion, conversation, or deconstruction. His WORD is clear (for those who believe and have the Holy Spirit) If prior to that day you have not repented of your sins and placed your faith in Christ's righteousness alone for your salvation, you will be sent to a place called hell. The kingdom of God is real, and he will establish it- a new heaven and a new earth- a place. We do not build it- GOD does. The Bible does not say that there will come a day when God will restore and reconcile- it says there will come a day when he will judge. And, if you are not in Christ, you will be sent to Hell.

How did God prove this? By a demonstration of His power by raising Christ from the dead. And, the one who died to save mankind from their sins, to reconcile us to God, He will be that judge who will determine who is his and who is not. If you die in your sins without Christ, He will be the one to send you to Hell. (Sorry Brian McLaren, this is not false advertising for the cross)

32Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, "We will hear you again about this." 33So Paul went out from their midst. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

Paul's testimony and our testimony will have the same result. Some will mock and continue to discuss or have a conversation. Their end if they do not repent and put their trust in Christ will be eternal damnation. The other response is trust-repentance and faith- and their end is heaven and eternal life.

When are the emergents going to understand the real message of Mars Hill? The message that God is a God that we can know, and even in knowing Him there is always more that we can know as we seek Him in truth? When will they understand that it is God who will bring His kingdom to this earth? When will they place a simple faith in His Word, and take His Word for what it clearly says? When will they stop with the conversation, and allow the conversation to lead them to Christ, and His truth? When will their leaders call for repentance and faith in Christ alone? I do not know when this will happen, but I pray that it happens soon. Like Paul, I am provoked in my Spirit on Mars Hill- the post-modern church in America worshipping idols of endless philosophy and deconstruction.

Deconstructing Solomon's Porch

2008-02-11T08:16:00.000-06:00

I am a man of my word, so I had been planning to return to Solomon's Porch on the invitation of Julie McMahon Jones, who I think thought that by me coming to her house of worship that I would be convinced that these are people seeking God and desiring to follow Him. I am not sure how one service is supposed to do this, but, I thought I would give it a try, and with an open mind. I had tried it once before, but due to a scheduling malfunction on their Website, I came too late to experience the service.

The setup at the Porch is much like a huge college coffeehouse. There is a variety of eclectic art hanging on the walls. This art is not necessarily religious in its nature; in fact there is what appears to be a giant paper mache goose hanging from the ceiling. There are old couches and chairs of varying color and condition encircling a central stool, which, for lack of a better term serves as a pulpit of sorts. There are two screens on the side walls that serve as part of the experience, putting up songs, announcements, and scripture passages ( I was the only one I saw in the place that had brought his own Bible~there might have been more, but frankly, the only use for them was to try and to make sense of what was said or not said from the Bible- more on that later) The band was very talented, especially the pianist. Again, it reminded me of a cool coffeehouse band, playing kind of folky jazzy rock style music.

I found a comfortable chair, and sat down. There was activity all around me 15 minutes prior to service. There were people eating soup and hearty bread provided by the church, a sort of communal meal enjoyed all around the 'sanctuary'. There was many more people drinking steaming cups of chai and coffee from the local coffeehouses (I was enjoying a mocha from caribou myself) There were many different people there, ranging in age from just born to a 70 ish man who was visiting his daughter. One thing I noticed was that this church, for all the emergent talk of being multi-cultural in their approach had only two people of color in the building. To be fair, this is typical of the churches I have been in in the upper midwest, and it was likely very reflective of the community this church is in, though it is only at most 7 blocks south of a much more ethnically diverse neighborhood.

Talking about the neighborhood, this church (Holistic Christian Community) fits right in. On my drive through the surrounding neighborhoods, there were rainbow flags, diversity stickers, democratic bumper stickers (apparently Kerry/Edwards are still running) and lawn signs, impeach Bush/Cheney signs, and other decorative artwork that made me wince. The people inside the walls really did reflect the neighborhood- artsy, liberal 'hip' kind of people, like those you would find in a college coffeehouse. This encouraged me, because this could be a lighthouse to this neighborhood which really reflected postmodern liberalism at its peak. It is with this hope that I entered into what I was hoping would be a service of worship.

I must say that never since I was in Juneau Alaska at my Dad's church (Episcopal) at a Christmas Eve service some 20 years ago was I so disappointed. The minister preached that night on the animal's conversation around the birth of Jesus. There was no scripture then. It was a philosophical message from a man who seemed like he had little concern or honor for the Word of God, much less for God Himself. To have the most wonderful nativity of Jesus Christ reduced to a conversation between animals was horrible.

This service began with a song about Daniel in the lions den and Darius, and a small g God that was very pleasing to my fleshly ears, but did little to glorify, worship, lift up, or honor Jesus. I must say that the music was very cool if I were in a coffeehouse listening to secular music. The band was extremely, if not theologically shallow. Nice lyrics about their spiritual journey and their feelings, but the name Jesus showed up only once in a chorus in a really upbeat and very cool song by the pianist/singer. There was one song that said holy holy holy, but it again honored man as the one who was to set out and reconcile creation, and bring about the kingdom. With all that talent of the musicians, I was disappointed that it was not very participatory on the congregations part other than looking at the screens, and for me at least did not bring me into a sense of a great and awesome God that was being lifted up in Spirit and in truth, rather it helped me see the struggles and the stories of the singers and writers.

Now to the pastoral prayer, which was really more of an introduction as to the three postures of prayer as explained by Greg- I mean Doug- Pagitt. These three postures were folded hands, kneeling, or uplifted hands. We were all to engage together in popcorn style prayer for all the different representations of churches. This introduction, like much of the service, was much in explaining the culture of Churchianity and this 'community' as to what was being done. There was more time in an exclamation about prayer postures than actual prayer. The congregation was simply to mention names of denominations like Baptists, or movements, etc. At the closing of the prayer, Doug said something like 'because this could go on forever, we will stop here, amen.' Again, with all the talk of postures and positions, there was no explanation about the practice, or even in honoring God in our prayer.

Then there was the message, which was really broken up into three parts. In the introduction, Doug again spent time explaining how they prepare messages at the Porch; They collaborate each Tuesday night about what the message ought to look like, who should deliver it, etc. Now this would be great if it were a team of Elders pouring over the scripture together, struggling with translations and meanings. Not as Doug described it. No, in fact, every Tom, Dick, and Henrietta in that room was invited to the Tuesday collaboration. In other words, no theology training required, no question as to your faith background, no question as to your theological views, no, just come and collaborate. Anyhow, what they got out of the collaboration was that they ought to discuss 'non-identical repetition' that is found in the musings about the life of one of the ladies in the congregation.

She then got up to explain how she had take a class in Jewish, Muslim, and Christian Iconography, and that her powerpoint presentation was a class project she had done for it. The Powerpoint was an illustration of this idea of non-identical repetition in the rhythms of her life paralleling the life of Mary and her first-born. She used parallel Iconography by finding pictures of her and her first born son that matched traditional icons of the life of Christ. Confused? I wish I could have gotten a copy of that to help you out. It was very touching, but it was also not at all a message that uplifted Christ; rather, it compared the things that happened in this woman and her son's life experience that paralleled Jesus' life. Of course, she was not a virgin when he was born, he did not heal people, cast out demons, or forgive sins. He didn't even die on the cross for the sins of the whole world, nor was he was not resurrected. Other than that, I guess I can see the similarities. Following her message, people were allowed to ask questions and discuss. I was so tempted, but I held my tongue. Tonight, I was an observer. The questions lacked spiritual depth, and again were simply humanistic and extra-biblical in their approach.

Then Doug got back up in front and tackled the deep teachings of the Beatitudes. he rattled through them very quickly, and gave a brief synopsis, and, I must say, and astute observation in my view. These rewards mentioned (kingdom of heaven, children of God, etc.) were thought by the Jews to be for them, but they were really for the people Jesus listed off. This is where Doug very deftly left out some of the scripture to suit what is his clear orthopraxis. He didn't say the rewards were for the poor in Spirit, like the scripture says, no, for the poor. He didn't say the persecuted for righteousness sake for my name, he said the persecuted. It became quickly very humanistic and social gospel oriented. But as soon as it had started, it was over. It was very quick, and again, I noticed, the scripture was on the powerpoint, it differed from my translation, and I was the only one I saw following along in the Bible.

Then came the communion and the communion meditation, all read together. This was very interesting also. Nothing about having a right heart before God, nothing about repentance, nothing about even being a Christian. It is identifying with the community of Christ followers past, present, and future. It did mention that it was a celebration of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, but not the 1 Corinthians 11 mandates. Hence, it was literally as Paul had warned. People ripping pieces of bread off over the room, serving themselves cups of wine and or grape juice, and a lot of talking. Doug described it as a community meal, and did not encourage repentance and self-examination, rather, he encouraged this type of fellowship and conversation. I had to leave the room.

What I saw in the community room was also disturbing. There were placards surrounding the room with quotes and poetry, not from the Bible, but from people like St. Francis of Assisi, Hafiz (a Muslim) a hindu writer (can't remember the name), Therese of Avila, and some others. These had to do with love and God, but from all these perspectives that had nothing to do with the Cross of Christ. Also in this room was a sihloette of a hindu deity in front of a hindu temple. I wondered to myself if this was where the Yoga was done on Saturday mornings.

They did finally bring out the Bible again as they held hands and said together Jude 24-25. The service ended much like it had begun, with a lot of conversations going on all around, people breaking bread in the community room. I am still digesting this experience, and will comment further later. I will say this in closing: I am very afraid of what this type of church is peddling to our young people. They will make their choices when they move out, and if they are not trained in the scripture, they will wind up in this type of very attractive, hip, and postmodern setting and will be fooled with the rest of them.

We need Discernment!

2008-02-09T17:20:00.000-06:00

Congratulations to those brave staff people at Wheaton College who have decided to withdraw their names from the statement "LOVING GOD AND NEIGHBOR TOGETHER: A CHRISTIAN RESPONSE TO A COMMON WORD BETWEEN US AND YOU" A statement that looked more like syncretism and ecumenism than a valid attempt at true peace. John Piper was distressed, I was deeply disgusted that people who represent evangelicalism to the world like Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, and Leif Anderson signed it. Of course, the gospel that many modern evangelicals present is barely recognizable compared to the truth that we find in scripture. It is no wonder that they cannot discern the multiple flaws in this statement.

These folks who are withdrawing from this statement say that they desired peace, which is why they signed it despite not agreeing with all of it. What I cannot understand is that they would sign a statement that puts Allah on the same level as God. This is utter blasphemy, and it breaks the first and second of the Ten Commandments. Our God is a jealous God, and He will not share His glory with anyone. The greatest disappointment is that these Christians do not know the Word of God well enough to recognize this.

We need more discernment from those who would shepherd our flock.

Tony Jones wastes another opportunity:

2008-02-07T21:25:00.000-06:00

The following is an excerpt from Tony Jones’s new book, The New Christians: Dispatches from the Emergent Frontier, coming out this spring from John Wiley & Sons. My comments are in BLUE

"…In late 2005, some of us emergent Christians were invited to meet with a group of young and innovative rabbis. Meetings between Jewish and Christian leaders are nothing new, and a lot of us, on both sides, had been involved in previous meetings (though not with each other). However, we were committed to making this meeting different. In the blogosphere, we began taking heat for even announcing the meeting, especially my quote in the press release that I was excited to meet with the rabbis to ‘‘talk about the future and God’s Kingdom.’’ Some of my Christian friends made it clear that Jews could not possibly be involved in kingdom of God work because they did not profess belief in Jesus. To emergents, this kind of thinking binds God’s work to the church and implies that outside the lives of professed Christians, God is handicapped."

No, Tony, it implies that Christ came as Messiah, and that His chosen, Israel, rejected Him. Paul always went to the Jews first on his missionary travels. He did not go to them to engage them in an emergent conversation, however. No, Paul went into the synagogues to proclaim the Good News of Jesus Christ. Your conversation about the Kingdom of God is doing nothing to win these lost people into the kingdom of God. Of course, your pastor Doug Pagitt, despite his protests to the contrary, believes that everyone will be reconciled to God at the judgement day ( he said so in a radio interview) the same way. I understand your confusion, but the truth of the matter is that Yashua (Jesus) said that He is the way, the truth,and the life, and no one gets to the Father but by Him. Perhaps if you truly loved these rabbis, you would cease vain babblings and proclaim the Good News that the Messiah has come. Did you ever even think to enter into that conversation?

God's work is not bound to the church, indeed God is working behind the scenes in the world every day, Tony. But the church is here for the purpose of being light and salt in this world, and this includes the proclamation of the Gospel. The purpose of the church is to build up and equip individual Christians to be that light and salt to people whom they have the privilege of coming into contact with.

"Rejecting this belief, I set to work with Shawn Landres, the director of research at Synagogue 3000, the group that convened the meeting …to bring together the emergent Christian leaders and the emergent Jewish leaders. We decided that we would ask no one to leave anything at the door—who you were in your synagogue or church is who we wanted you to be at this meeting. To that end, Shawn began our meeting. We were all sitting in a circle—about two dozen of us—and Shawn said, ‘‘To my fellow Jews, I want to let you know that these emergent Christians are going to talk openly about Jesus and the Bible. This may make you uncomfortable at first, but that’s what they believe, so that’s what they’re going to talk about.’’ I went on to say something similar to my Christian peers about the rabbis talking about the Torah."

That is the beauty of this opportunity, Tony! You could have preached almost the entire Gospel straight from their rendition of the Torah! You have the original fall of man, you have the animal slain to cover the nakedness of man! You have the ark! You have Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses! You have the passover! the Exodus! The giving of the law! The impossibility of keeping the Law! The promise of messiah and the salvation of God repeated over and over and over. Why didn't you use the platform that you have been given to share this Good News?

"The resulting conversation was a thing of beauty. Though occasionally awkward, those moments were far outweighed by times of great poignancy. I led a meditation on a story of Jesus, and Troy Bronsink led songs he has written about Jesus. The rabbis taught from Torah, and the cantors led us in songs of Jewish faith. No one held back, which ultimately led to more candor and openness about what we really believe. And that, in turn, led to deeper friendships, since openness and authenticity are such important qualities in making friends." Was that the only purpose here? They must not really be friends, because you don't care about their eternity. "One instance from the gathering represents this best. In one small group, the question was raised about whether rabbis from older, established synagogues might bless and assist young rabbis who are attempting to start something new. After some discussion among the Jewish members of the small group, Tim Keel, pastor of Jacob’s Well in Kansas City, spoke up. He told the story of Eli and Samuel, found at the beginning of 1 Samuel, and of how the very old prophet, Eli, and the young boy and prophet-to-be, Samuel, formed a mutually beneficial and nonhierarchical relationship."

Wonderful story, but all I get from this is that you are more concerned about vain philosophy and a conversation about your emerging ideas, and care not about the Gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation- first for the Jew and then for the Greek. Samuel and Eli is another wonderful story that has Messianic implications- how God punished Eli for the behavior of his sons, how God raised up Samuel, who, being obedient to the call of the Lord, anointed the king David, whose Heir would sit on the eternal throne. All this done by the grace, providence, sovereignty, and omniscience of God.

"When Tim finished, silence ensued. Then a rabbi quietly said, ‘‘Yasher koach.’’ Shawn told me later that’s a Yiddish version of the Hebrew yishar kochachah, which means, ‘‘More strength to you.’’ He also told me that it’s a traditional expression of appreciation and respect for an interpretation of Torah.

It was a moment of beautiful truth."

Unfortunately, the truth that could bring them to salvation was not proclaimed, the only truth that is called beautiful in the scripture. This may have bee a beautiful truth, but it was not the beautiful truth. And your feet that walked here, Tony, were not beautiful either. They did not bring Good News.

Amen, Amen, AMEN!!!

2008-02-07T18:14:00.000-06:00

This was found at www.christianresearchnet.com- and all I can comment on it is Amen. This is what all churches should be - Christ centered! driven by Christ! Empowered by Christ!

If you have been fooled by purpose-driven madness, if you have compromised the Message of the Scripture to a modern feel good message, maybe 40 days of repentance would be a beneficial thing.

The Seeker Sensitive Movement

2008-02-04T22:13:00.000-06:00

R.C. Sproal, Al Mohler, and Ravi Zacharius take a look at the seeker sensitive church. Listen to what they have to say about the seeker sensitive movement. Take a listen to this, and give me your opinion either yea or nay. This is fascinating stuff.

The Gospel according to Rick Warren

2008-02-04T21:55:00.000-06:00

For those who said I was picking on Rick Warren, because (on Stephen Colbert's) show he didn't know what he might ask and he couldn't rehearse what he might say...you MIGHT find this video strangely familiar.

Again, pastor Warren has the floor in front of thousands (maybe millions) of unbelievers, and he has the opportunity to talk about God. Would YOU take advantage of this differently?

And I am still trying to find out where in the world that the scripture tells me that in my unregenerate state that God smiles on me. If anyone can show me, I would be much obliged.

Here is something else that is shocking; Warren preaches salvation by WORKS!

Matthew 20:1-16

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3"About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

7" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.
"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

9"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

13"But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

16"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

Would you have done this differently?

2008-01-30T07:37:00.000-06:00

I am trying to be generous here.

Put yourself in Rick's shoes here: How could you have answered Colbert's questions to make a more effective Gospel presentation? And then answer this one, from the scripture, please: Will Jesus come into your heart if you ask him to? (Actual question from Colbert)

When did Jesus Cease being Enough?

2008-01-28T10:52:00.000-06:00

Contestants driven to ‘Fix My Ride’
BY CHRISTIE STORM
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008

BENTONVILLE — Austin Griffith has wheels to envy.

His ’ 67 Ford Mustang sports a new paint job, touchscreen DVD player and even a television in the trunk — all courtesy of First Assembly of God in Bentonville.

Griffith, 16, won the church’s “Fix My Ride” contest for bringing the most guests to the weekly “oneighty” youth meetings. The prize was a $ 10, 000 upgrade.

“My friends say, ‘You are so lucky. That’s the sweetest car I’ve ever seen, ’” Griffith said.

Griffith’s ramped-up car was unveiled earlier this month during the weekly youth meeting.

“We pulled it inside the sanctuary,” said Gabe Cox, youth pastor.

The group of more than 100 students gathered around the covered car watching for the finished project to be revealed.

“On three we all yelled, ‘ Austin, your ride has been fixed’ and opened it up,” Cox said.

The contest was the idea of senior pastor Chad Stafford and a reflection of the church’s dedication to children and youth.

“Our purpose is all about reaching youth and kids,” Cox said. “We want to draw them in and get them interested in church.” During November and December students in the ministry could earn points for attending the weekly oneighty gathering and bringing guests as well as successfully encouraging guests’ parents to attend a weekend worship service. The student who received the most points was the winner.

Cox said Griffith consistently brought friends and participated in weekly meetings. Others tried to rally near the end, but couldn’t catch him.

The oneighty ministry is for students in grades 7 through 12. Weekly meetings usually attract more than 100 students. The church’s new multipurpose building is teen-friendly and features multiple flat-screen TVs, video game systems, a billiards room, a multimedia room and a cafe.

Stafford said the contest added new excitement to the ministry, but some students couldn’t believe the prize was real.

“At first some people thought it was too good to be true,” he said.

But the results speak for themselves. Griffith’s Mustang was outfitted with an alarm system, tinted windows, automatic door locks, Bluetooth technology and much more. Stafford said, in all, the modifications and donated labor totaled about $ 10, 000.

“The crew stayed up two nights in a row to finish it,” he said. “And, they’re already talking about next year.” Work was done by Flamethrower Concepts and the Auto Tint Shop. Men from the church also got involved.

“We had people who just loved cars wanting to see it be gutted and redone,” Stafford said. “It was cool. People really rallied behind it.” Stafford said the contest is just one example of big events the church offers to attract students and keep them involved.

“We’ll do anything aside from sin to save the next generation,” Stafford said.

When did Jesus Cease being Enough?

When did the Great Commission become about how many students attend your youth service? When did discipleship become about video games, flat screen TV's? It is no wonder that so many youth, when they leave for college, get sucked off into the world (see article here www.changesmsu.blogspot.com) It is because they probably did not have any faith of their own. They likely went to a youth group like this that was more concerned with entertaining the MTV generation than they were with training their students to reach others with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Many college ministries are not much better, they try to attract people at the same level, with entertainment, and 'fellowship' that is rather shallow, and attracts those same students that want to be entertained and not discipled.

We need to reevaluate who church is for, and our calling. Jesus told us this very clearly. Go! Baptize! Teach all I have commanded you! Do this to make DISCIPLES. Then the church (Ephesians 4) is there to equip, build up, bring to maturity.

Satan loves the seeker sensitive church. So many are lured in by the entertainment and the false Gospel, and they have a false sense of security. Many more are hardened to the true Gospel Wide is the road that leads to destruction. Likely wide enough to hold this hot new mustang.

Do we really need to market the Bible?

2008-01-24T09:53:00.000-06:00

Recently in the San Francisco Chronicle, we got a new interesting look into the marketing of the Bible. You can check out this whole article here:

Here is a sample:

"If you put chocolate coating on an Oreo, it's a different cookie, and you ought to be able to charge more," Caminiti argued. "The packaging has to scream that this is something really new: First time! Fudge-dipped! Chocolate-coated!"
Todd Niemeyer, vice president of sales, chuckled and murmured, "Smoke and mirrors."
The team kicks around inexpensive ways to make the new edition stand out.
"We could put in an extra ribbon marker. ... Maybe special parchment paper at the beginning?" Bishop suggested.
"There you go!" said Brian Scharp, vice president of Bible marketing. "The list of premium features is growing and growing."
"Gold-plated bling?" Niemeyer asked mischievously.
"A vial of Holy Land soil attached to the back?" Bishop offered, as the room dissolved in laughter.
The Zondervan staff has turned down a few ideas - a 3-D pop-up Bible, for instance - that they found too gimmicky. "There is a line, because it's God's word," Scharp said.
Later, though, he admitted: "It's hard to draw the line in any one place and say, 'We're never going to cross that.' "

You can call me an old fuddy duddy, but wasn't this the book that people bled and died so we could have it in our language? Isn't this the book that many are still literally dying for so that they can have a copy?

People will also get after me for this: This reminds me of the seeker sensitive and the emerging church. HEY GUYS! lets dress up church to make it relevant! Lets advertise a clown service, or the worlds biggest dog! Lets give out shot glasses, or display a 25 foot phallus in front of our church!

Is the fact the God has given us a written revelation of himself not enough anymore? Do we need Gold-plated bling, or a vial holy land dirt? What is wrong with the American church? Too much properity, too many freedoms, not enough cross.

Did Jesus die for social change? Tony Jones critique

2008-01-23T18:00:00.001-06:00

From Tony Jones' latest Book "The New Christians"

“As is well known, the permissible range of issues that can be on the theological or ethical agenda at some conservative evangelical churches has been narrowed to two: abortion and gay marriage. In their salvos against other issues - such as global warming - evangelicals like James Dobson, Chuck Colson, and the late Jerry Falwell have said as much. A specific example of this kind of thinking comes from Ronnie Floyd. In the days following the April 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre, Floyd posted extensively about the tragedy on his blog, “Between Sundays.” He warned the American church to “get serious” and to “WAKE UP!!!” Thirty-three persons had died, he wrote, and they each went to heaven or hell. He then urged his readers to get busy with evangelism because “death is real,” and the job of Christians is to “bring others to Christ” so that they won’t go to hell when they die.

In Floyd’s blog posts about the Virginia Tech shootings, there was nary a word about Seung-Hui Cho’s ready access to guns and ammunition. No comment about the epidemic of clinical depression in our country. Not a mention of the prevalence of hurting people in our culture, often adolescents who are shrouded in anonymity, lost on college campuses with tens of thousands of other students. In other words, Floyd said nothing about the systemic issues that become acute to many of us during times of tragedy. Floyd’s question is not how this young man’s mind became so twisted in his own mental illness, how he fell through the cracks of our societal net, or how he was able to purchase two handguns and hundreds of bullets with no more than a driver’s license. The question was about whether he and his victims had invited Jesus into their hearts before they died.”

The reason this young man had no comment about the clinical depression, the guns and ammunition, and hurting people living in anonimity is because he actually had eternity on his mind. He became painfully aware that he could die any day, and that we are not guaranteed another day. He became more aware of his responsibility to those who are stepping off into eternity on a daily basis. You see, concerns about guns, ammunition, depression, loneliness are issues that are no longer concerns for those who are dead. They are now concerned (too late) about their eternal destiny. While many emergents are struggling with the idea of a real hell not on this earth, Jesus warned us that there is one. He told us that whoever believes is not condemned, but he who believes not is condemned already because he has not believed on the name of God's one and only Son.

I understand the desire to bring heaven to earth, evidenced by the concern for all the social ills Jones' lists above. But we are called not to love this world or the things in this world. We are promised that Jesus is coming again, and there will be a new heaven and earth. There is a heaven that is a location away from here in which Jesus is preparing us a place. I resonate with a desire for God's kingdom to come, but the way that Jesus commanded us to do that was to go and make disciples. When people are converted, their attitudes change. They become followers of Christ, and the kingdom people make a difference in the world around them. This benefits all people in the communities in which the born-again people live. The fruit of the spirit molds their attitudes and their actions. The only way to change this country and the world for the better is for us to get a view of eternity and lead people to Christ. May we all get aroused by the passion of Ronnie Floyd, and follow his call to WAKE UP!

Emergent Concepts and Behaviors-Scientific View

2008-01-23T07:15:00.000-06:00

Pastorboy said:”Bring your comments and questions and discussion.”

Hello Pastorboy,
Here is my contribution to your book on “emergence / emergent behavior”. I cannot find your email address so I will post it here and you can just cut and paste the text of the comment section. I am going to share with you my observations on “emergent behavior” from the scientific perspective. In this study, I applied well documented “emergent concepts” that have been theorized since the middle 1,800’s to a hypothetical organization to see what one might look like. Here is a good scientific explanation I found of “emergent concept and behaviour”. http://www.answers.com/topic/emergence-1 . You would do well to read it after you have read this. It may clear away some of the mystery surrounding “emergent behaviour” and give you some insight.
“An emergent concept (EC) is a slight variation on consensus reality that is accepted as plausible. The hallmarks of an emergent concept, as opposed to some categories of memes (urban myths, or viruses of the mind) are that EC are increasingly accepted as truth or possibility, based upon other empirical or anecdotal evidence in the mind of the believer or society (in its subsets) as a whole. EC can be viewed as fad, or common causal reality building. EC have no relationship to truth or fact, but are simply engines bringing individual concepts of truth into the mainstream.” (Bold added to existing text)
For example, if a group of “social engineers” applied “emergent concepts” to an organization of people, that organization would not have any real need or desire to understand truth, search for truth, defend truth, or embrace truth because the “emergent model” is designed to “create” truth. This is similar to consensus reality where multiple views on something like religion are all tossed together in a conversation and discussed until what is agreed upon finally as “reality” by the organization or group becomes the new “truth”. The consensus is easily accepted by everyone in the group as “plausible truth” because all members had a hand in creating it. If you are on the outside studying organizations applying “emergent concepts” it is interesting to watch, but to someone inside that organization it would be almost impossible for them to see what was being done to them. You could give them the impression that “emergence” that they are a part of is actually a representation of a little fresh budding leaf of beautiful new growth. They would be like happy, busy laboratory rats in some big social engineering experiment working through a maze. All they would know is that every time something “changes” or “shifts” in the paradigm then there is a new “truth” to be discovered and then they start looking forward to constantly changing “truths” with new “truths” constantly being discovered. This could theoretically go on indefinitely, as long as everything is constantly kept changing and shifting. A whole new paradigm could result.
Here is another scientific explanation of “emergent behaviour” from the same site: http://www.answers.com/topic/emergence-1
“An emergent behaviour or emergent property can appear when a number of simple entities (agents) operate in an environment, forming more complex behaviours as a collective. If emergence happens over disparate size scales, then the reason is usually a causal relation across different scales. In other words there is often a form of top-down feedback in systems with emergent properties. The processes from which emergent properties result may occur in either the observed or observing system, and can commonly be identified by their patterns of accumulating change, most generally called ‘growth’. Why emergent behaviours occur include: intricate causal relations across different scales and feedback, known as interconnectivity. The emergent property itself may be either very predictable or unpredictable and unprecedented, and represent a new level of the system’s evolution. The complex behaviour or properties are not a property of any single such entity, nor can they easily be predicted or deduced from behaviour in the lower-level entities: they are irreducible. No physical property of an individual molecule of air would lead one to think that a large collection of them will transmit sound.“ (bold added to existing text)

As with the air molecule analogy, one individual with one mind set and purpose could only do so much on their own, but just imagine a whole world that was driven to one “purpose” and vision like one big global brain thinking the same thoughts.

“ According to an emergent perspective, intelligence emerges from the connections between neurons, and from this perspective it is not necessary to propose a “soul” to account for the fact that brains can be intelligent, even though the individual neurons of which they are made are not.”

By applying the concept of “emergence” to all of humanity, humankind theoretically could “emerge” into a whole new “reality”. Possibly a new world order, or even an attempt to bring Heaven to earth? (Genesis 11:4-7 KJV). I know that sounds very unrealistic, because to achieve something like that, you would have to teach all humanity a new way to “think” in terms of groups (i.e. group think). Someone once said: “I would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony”. To be of maximum effectiveness, you would have to teach all in the emergent organization how to focus and center their thoughts and prayers the most effectively. Think of the possibilities. The Bible says that nothing would be restrained from man if all mankind could imagine it.

And the Lord said, Behold, the people is ONE, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now NOTHING will be restrained from them, which they IMAGINED to do (Genesis 11:6 KJV).

Here is an interesting link I found: http://www.humanemergence.org/

I personally though believe that consensus reality as it has been used in history has been shown to be a flawed way to come to a clear concept of the “reality” to be embraced by society. Example: All the great scholars have reached a consensus; we believe that in reality, the earth is “flat”! Sir Isaac Newton is a heretic and a madman that must be hunted down and killed because he thinks the earth is round!

For “emergent behaviour” to manifest in the organization, you would first need to create unity and drive in the organization with a single purpose and vision. Then you would have to drive out all that are not in unity and at the same time shield the target organization from the dissenters until the desired behaviour has time to “emerge”. You can then go back and deal with the resistors later, after the emergent behaviour has begun manifesting. You could reach out and offer them one last chance to join you.
“On the other hand, merely having a large number of interactions is not enough by itself to guarantee emergent behaviour; many of the interactions may be negligible or irrelevant, or may cancel each other out. In some cases, a large number of interactions can in fact work against the emergence of interesting behaviour, by creating a lot of “noise” to drown out any emerging “signal”; the emergent behaviour may need to be temporarily isolated from other interactions before it reaches enough critical mass to be self-supporting.”
One unique thing about “emergent behaviour”, is it can be observed in small groups also, without a centralized structure and command.
“Thus it is not just the sheer number of connections between components which encourages emergence; it is also how these connections are organised. A hierarchical organisation is one example that can generate emergent behaviour (a bureaucracy may behave in a way quite different to that of the individual humans in that bureaucracy); but perhaps more interestingly, emergent behaviour can also arise from more decentralized organisational structures, such as a marketplace. In some cases, the system has to reach a combined threshold of diversity (all faiths), organization (small groups), and connectivity (love, social justice, environment, etc.) before emergent behaviour appears.” (bold words in parentheses added).
I have seen really no one discuss “emergent concepts and behaviours” on any blogs from a scientific perspective. Am I the only one that finds this stuff fascinating?
F Whittenburg
http://www.christiannewbirth.com/whenfaithcame.html

The Emergent Manifesto of Truth II- Brian McLaren

2008-01-21T14:42:00.000-06:00

Brian McLaren, on the uniqueness of Jesus in an Interview by Leif Hansen:

Hansen: Now, I agree with you and I am starting to come to an understanding of the cross. And I have a hunch that it’s probably pretty similar to your understanding of the cross and the kingdom. But one of the places we might differ—I don’t even want to say that because I am just really exploring right now—is, weren’t there people before Jesus and since Jesus, some inspired by Him, some Christian, some martyrs, and wasn’t God, in a sense, demonstrating self sacrificial love since the beginning of time? Since God created beings other than Himself? So, I guess the reason I ask that question is two-fold. One, it has to do with this question of world religions and Christian exclusivism. Some might say, well yes, we also believe that at the heart and center of God and of reality is self-sacrificial love. But we don’t think that Jesus was the only one to teach about that and to demonstrate that in His life. Now, a more—what’s the word to use?—a more conservative Christian, whatever—someone who believes in the literal ontological divinity of Christ would have an argument and say, well yes, but this was, this was more central because it was actually God, literally, demonstrating that kind of love. However, someone, a more liberal Christian, who might think that Jesus was perfectly imaging God’s love, or totally inspired by God’s love but not literally God—To be honest, that’s the direction I am leaning more myself these days. We would have a hard time saying what makes Jesus’ life and example and living love to the death more unique than any other.

McLaren: Right. If I understand what you’re saying. These are important subjects. I understand you’re saying: Look, we could look at Ghandi’s live as an example of self sacrificial love or Martin Luther King Junior’s life. There would be a lot of people we could look at. And so wouldn’t it be better to just talk about Jesus as one among many, rather than lift Him up as some extraordinary example. Because by doing that we create, we perpetuate this Christian elitism and exclusivism, et cetera, et cetera. Is that what you’re saying?

Hansen: Bingo! Yeah, that’s really right on.

Leif, Words mean things. When Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life (John 14:6) he was not in any way suggesting that there are other ways that are just as good as Him. He was declaring that the way was exclusive, and the way was unique. He was declaring that his way was superior,exclusive, and that there was no other way. He was saying that all other ways lead to destruction.

Revelation 17:14 declares him as " Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

Brian, in case you didn't know, Jesus Christ is unique, and supreme because even if those other men exemplified self sacrifice,
~They did not have the power to save their life, Jesus did. John 10:18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
~They were not God incarnate, Jesus was. John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
~They are still in their graves. Jesus is not. Luke 24:6He is not here; he has risen!
~They did not have the power to save men from their sins. Jesus does. Acts 4:12 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
~They lived sinful lives, Jesus was perfect in thought, word, and deed. Hebrews 4:15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin

Brian McLaren on the Cross:

McLaren: This is, one of the huge problems is the traditional understanding of hell. Because if the cross is in line with Jesus’ teaching then—I won’t say, the only, and I certainly won’t say even the primary—but a primary meaning of the cross is that the kingdom of God doesn’t come like the kingdoms of the this world, by inflicting violence and coercing people. But that the kingdom of God comes through suffering and willing, voluntary sacrifice. But in an ironic way, the doctrine of hell basically says, no, that that’s not really true. That in the end, God gets His way through coercion and violence and intimidation and domination, just like every other kingdom does. The cross isn’t the center then. The cross is almost a distraction and false advertising for God.

Oh my, what blasphemy! The Cross is about the love of God, and the wrath of God is propitiated- paid for completely by Christ. God is love, but God is just. Someone must pay for offenses against God. Jesus did. What greater love is there than that?

John 3:16-18"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

There is so much stuff that McLaren says that is untrue, unscriptural, and heretical. This is just a start. I could write the entire book on him! Have at it, you defenders of EV and ECM

An Emergent Manifesto of Truth

2008-01-20T17:14:00.000-06:00

These are some quotes which I have gathered on different views of truth in the Emergent Church. I have compared them to scripture verses. I wish to challenge those in emergent thought to show me if the statement made by the author or speaker is truth, or a shading of the truth (how much must one shade the truth before it becomes a lie?)

Doug Pagitt, on Creation: “[In the Emerging Church] the idea that there is a necessary distinction of…creation from creator is being reconsidered.”

Doug Pagitt (Listening to the Beliefs of the Emerging Churches, 142.)

The BIBLE makes a distinctive between Creator and creation...

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth

Romans 1:25, 28 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

"We’re [the Emerging Church] not trying to slide anything by someone; we’re trying to work very deeply, and connected to the story of God, and with God, in this world to try to express “what are the hopes and dreams of God for our world.”

What are the hopes and dreams of God for this world? Does God have hopes and dreams? I thought God was sovereign? God does not have hopes and dreams, He has a will, plans, and foreknowledge; No matter what Greg Boyd teaches:

The Bible teaches that God is Sovereign:

Isaiah 40:13-14 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD,
Or as His counselor has informed Him?
14 With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding?
And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge
And informed Him of the way of understanding?

Daniel 4:35"All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And (C)no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, What have You done?'

Ephesians 3:11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,

Eightly–there’s an openness to the “other” (point 8 on his Powerpoint display). To the other thinker, to the foreigner, to the outsider; it’s this call to love, not only God and neighbor–but to love enemy and to not be “freaked out,” and not to be so concerned about when “the other” is in our midst.

And I think that’s about the very understanding about the character of God; the acceptance of ‘the otherr,” and these [Emergent] communities tend to look [at it] this way.
Doug Pagitt at Council for a Parliment of World Religions, Disc 1, Ch. 6, 15:13-15:51

The Bible teaches:
Exodus 20:1Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3"You shall have no other gods before Me.

I'd watch out for the search of 'the other...Doug...if I were you.... Exodus 20:5"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

What is 'the Other' discussed by Pagitt? It is Emergent code for other religions. Here is what Dr. Samir Salmonovic has to say in An Emergent Manifesto of Hope- edited by Doug Pagitt:

"Can it be that the teachings of the gospel are embedded and can be found in reality itself rather than being exclusively isolated in sacred texts and our interpretations of those texts? If the answer is yes, can it be that they are embedded in other stories, other peoples’ histories, and even other religions?...
God’s table is welcoming all who seek, and if any religion is to win, may it be the one that produces people who are the most loving, the most humble, the most Christlike. Whatever the meaning of “salvation” and “judgement,” we Christians are going to be saved by grace, like everyone else, and judged by our works, like everyone else…
For most critics of such open Christianity, the problem with inclusiveness is that it allows for truth to be found in other religions. To emerging Christians, that problem is sweet… Moreover, if non-Christians can know our God, then we want to benefit from their contribution to our faith. (192, 195,196,)

Does the Bible teach universalism? I guess it does not matter, according to Pagitt and Salmonovic, we can find truth in reality and embedded in other's stories and traditions:

The Bible says:

Exodus 9:14"For this time I will send all My plagues on you and your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is no one like Me in all the earth.

2 Samuel 7:22"For this reason You are great, O Lord GOD; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You,
according to all that we have heard with our ears.

John 17:3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Thats enough for today...Let the 'conversation' begin!!

Present yourselves

2008-01-20T16:56:00.000-06:00

We have focussed so far on two words: know and consider. In this chapter, Paul is building a case about how it is that we, by the power of the Holy Spirit, bring our knowledge of the truth in line with our daily lives. In other words, bring the truth of sanctification to bear so that we look more and more like Jesus Christ. We need to know the reality of what the Holy Spirit has done in our lives when we come to Christ by repentance and faith, and then we have to consider it to be true in our lives. Today, we will focus on the word ‘present’
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Again, Paul uses an emphatic Greek word here, in answer to a rhetorical question. Put another way, Paul is asking “having been released from the penalty of the law, and having no fear of punishment, should we just go ahead and sin? After all, it has been paid for, and God’s grace is huge enough to cover any sin, right? Paul is setting up this question, I am sure, in response to many similar questions about this ‘new’ doctrine of grace by faith. He also recognizes that he must clarify here that legalism does not save, but nor does license. So to put it a different way, since we are no longer bound by the law, do we have license to sin? Paul answers again with an emphatic “May it never be!”
This verse is very important in its context, because it sets up the argument Paul is about to make. Many people in that time, and in this time could pull parts of Paul’s preaching and writing apart to make it say that Paul was preaching lawlessness or license. It is quite the opposite in context; Paul is stating that we now actually have the freedom to live in obedience to Christ completely and effectively. Whereas before Christ, we imperfectly kept the law to please him, offering sacrifices to cover our sin until the next time we sinned, we now have been released from that law, and practice obedience because in placing our trust in Christ, we are united with Him, and we are already dead to sin and alive in Him. The law has been perfectly kept by Christ, and we are in Him, so our relationship to the law and to sin has been changed. They no longer have command over us, for their requirements have been satisfied in Christ. This does not free us to sin, rather, it frees us to fully experience the Christ-life or the exchanged life or the sanctified life God wants us to have in Christ Jesus in a way that we could not in and of ourselves.
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Here we see the word present; Paul is using this word which describes an act of the will in an illustration familiar to his listeners, that of a relationship of a slave to a master. In this verse, we see the clear choice reaffirmed: We can choose who we will obey, who will be our master. Our will is not dead, it controls what we will do and our decision making process. Our will must be sanctified! We must know who we are in Christ in the spiritual, consider it to be true, and act on it by presenting ourselves day by day, minute by minute to our Master, Jesus Christ.
Paul emphasizes in this verse the consequences of each choice. In both cases, we present our will to the one whom we choose to obey. The slave illustration is apt, for the slave was owned and did without question what his master commanded, he is likened to a puppet. But, in this illustration, the slave (you and I) have a choice which master we will serve, and which master we will hand our will over to. So, if we present our will over to fulfilling the legal requirements of the law, trying to become a good person in and of ourselves, we will ultimately fall into sin, and we will follow that sinful behavior to its bitter end, which Paul emphasizes here is death. Our other choice is obedience to the call Paul is making here, a placing of trust fully on the finished work of Christ. Obedience to that call is the only way that the end will be us becoming righteous.
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Paul says that we were slaves to sin, but we should be giving thanks to God because before we came to Christ we were bound by the law, and as a result slaves to sin. But all that changed when we repented of our sin, repented of our self-righteousness, and became obedient from the heart to this teaching; the teaching which says that we are saved by Grace through faith and this is not of ourselves..it is the gift of God. Our masters have changed! We have been freed from sin! we are now slaves of righteousness! We have been freed from sin, from the law, from the laws requirements, because they have all been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
I think it is interesting here that Paul, in other parts of his epistles, calls himself a bondservant, which is a slave by choice. In the Jewish form of slavery, one was enslaved due to a debt that he owed, or he would sell himself into servitude. This picture of slavery in the spiritual means that we were all ‘sold into sin’ at birth. But, according to the law, slaves were to be freed when their debt had been paid, or every seventh year, the year of jubilee. At that point, a slave could choose to stay in the service of the master. This was a bondservant, as Paul called himself, a bondservant of Jesus Christ. We are, by choice, when we come to Christ, a bondservant of Christ. We have become a bondservant of righteousness, we have presented ourselves to Christ as our Lord and Master, and we have been freed from the forced slavery of sin to the willing service of righteousness.
19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
Paul is making a point here that when you feed the monster that is your sinful desires, they seem to multiply themselves. For the alcoholic, the first drink leads to the second, and so on. With the lust of the eyes, a glance can turn to a stare, and so on. When we feed the beast, the beast wants more. This simply leads to more sin. On the other hand, when we are obedient, and submit ourselves to Christ’s righteous standards, we become more sanctified, and gain victory. If the alcoholic refuses the drink, or the one who loves pornography averts his eyes, they have gained ground towards sanctification. Again, this is only because of who Christ is in us that we are even able to make the right choice, and it is by His power that when we present ourselves to Him, He is able to make us more and more like Him.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

Paul is returning here to those who say that he is preaching license, he was saying why would you come to Christ to continue to do the things which separated you from God? You are already free in your unredeemed state to make any choice that you want, and, because our heart is wicked, the choice tends to be the choice to sin. Even when we would do the right things in the eyes of people, it was for our own glory and not for the glory of God.
If we are bondservants of Christ Jesus, these will not be our desires; we will desire to do the right out of a love for God.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
Paul is addressing those who look back and desire to be re-enslaved to sin. What good did that do you? Paul asks. There is no benefit in being a slave to sin. Paul outlines what a depraved individual looks like in chapter 1 of Romans. The benefit? total depravity, separation from God, death. These things all feel god for a season, but in the end, they are death. Look at the who enjoyed promiscuous sex, or IV drugs for a season, but now has AIDS. What benefit did they get? A temporary high, or a good feeling, which has its end in death. And so it is with all sin, it is a good feeling for a season, but its end is death.
So why would you want to go back to that? Instead, present yourselves wholeheartedly to your new Master, Jesus Christ. He, by the power of the Holy Spirit, will change you into his likeness. You are free from sin, it no longer has mastery over you. The benefit? sanctification, being made Holy, and the outcome is eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The coming of death into the world was a direct result of the coming of sin into the world.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—

God promised Adam that death would be the result of sin, the ultimate penalty for an offense against God. Sin entered the world, and we are slaves to it. We are born in sin, and the ultimate end of that truth is that one day we will all die. It is inescapable.. The right reward for our lawbreaking is death. God is a righteous judge. We owe a debt to Him due to our lawbreaking. Make no mistake: there is something even worse than physical death no matter how painful it will be for you. It is the penalty phase resulting from your guilty verdict, where all of God’s wrath that has been built up over a lifetime of seeking sin will be poured out on you for all eternity, with no escape.
But his gift is that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sin by his death on the Cross. The fine has been paid by Christ, it is only a fool who would choose to pay his own fine when Christ has paid it for him. Don’t be that fool. If you have never repented of your sins, never confessed them to God, never forsook them, never turned from them and left them behind, you should do that today. Present yourself to Christ by faith, and put all your trust in Him for salvation. He will receive you, if you will only come to Him by repentance and faith. The result? you will no longer be under the requirements of the law, because Christ has fulfilled those. Sin and death will no longer have a hold on you.
But don’t stop there. Know who you are in Jesus Christ, consider what is true in the spiritual is true in your daily life, and put it into practice. Then you will be able to present yourself to Christ, and live the righteous life that He requires by his power and for His glory.

The Down Grade

Do you testify with Christ? John 7:7

Was Chicken Little Right?

The wonderful grace of repentance Psalm 130 The glory of God in Repentance: Jeff Noblitt

The Wonderful Grace of Repentance: Brokenness is appropriate response to sin Voddie Baucham

The Wonderful Grace of Repentance: Grace Wrought RepentanceJeff Noblit

Live Blogging the True Church Conference: The Wonderful Grace of Repentance

Is this your church?

What is the problem with todays church??

Where is the social justice in this?

Where does 'America's Pastor' stand on homosexuality?

Rick Warren did it right?

What Jesus are you praying to?

The Great Emergence from Biblical Authority

Burning down "The Shack"

Rick Warren on Hannity and Colmes: He almost got it!

Open letter to a friend who has a gay loved one:

It has begun: Tony Jones and The great apostasy *Updated*

Rev. Peterson: Black Preachers are Worshiping the Wrong Messiah

There is something seriously wrong in America.

Obama the Messiah?

Newsflash: South Dakota University Board of Regents trumps the Constitution.

Vote Your Conscience

Th Freedm of Choice Act- Obama lies again regarding abortion

The Catholic Vote

Obama, theDemocrats, and Emergents.

Obama's stand on abortion

Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt and the Folsom Street Fair

The right to a dead Baby: Obama's untenable position

How can a Christian justify voting for Obama/Biden?

Parody Predicts the Future: The New Emergent Version of Scripture

The original Article: WHERE IS THE LIBEL???

Richard Abanes and the downfall of Matthew 18 and the First Amendment

Newsflash: Paul shares the stage with false Teachers and heretics and refuses to criticize them

Why is Ray Comfort preaching at a Prosperity Church Conference?

Obama: Babies are a Punishment for a Mistake

Yet Another reason I am reconsidering the term 'Evangelical'

Another reason I am reconsidering the term 'Evangelical'

The Gospel according to Rick Warren

Is this poem fitting for a Christian, or a PASTOR? **Updated**

I have not been blogging here lately

What a great Song and dance... FOR CHURCH??????????

Doug Pagitt @ Seeds of Compassion

A Bridge over Emerging Waters

Why Emergent 'Christians' like Obama for President

What do these authors have in Common?

The Church of the Week

Deconstructing "The New Christians" 1

Tony Jones joining smurfs, Inviting Gargamel into conversation

Dear Tony Jones,

I am proud of my wife!

An open Response to Carlos Shelton AKA Iggy

Tony Jones Interview *UPDATED*

Cottonwood School Bus Tragedy

Rob Bell is Not a Christian?

Emergent Evangelism?

Accentuate the Positive, Eliminate the Negative?

I guess God doesn't love Living Word Christian Center?

White Space Christians

The real Mars Hill

Deconstructing Solomon's Porch

We need Discernment!

Tony Jones wastes another opportunity:

Amen, Amen, AMEN!!!

The Seeker Sensitive Movement

The Gospel according to Rick Warren

Would you have done this differently?

When did Jesus Cease being Enough?

Do we really need to market the Bible?

Did Jesus die for social change? Tony Jones critique

Emergent Concepts and Behaviors-Scientific View

The Emergent Manifesto of Truth II- Brian McLaren

An Emergent Manifesto of Truth

Present yourselves

It has begun: Tony Jones and The great apostasy Updated

Is this poem fitting for a Christian, or a PASTOR? Updated

Tony Jones Interview UPDATED